tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32474064928052283642024-02-19T16:28:37.569+01:00RAMS RAVENS AND WRECKS Naval Warfare with Ancient Galleys : Card model ships, wargame rules and the background for their development : All original material copyright
Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.comBlogger393125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-54882336606481860932021-09-25T17:00:00.001+02:002021-09-25T17:00:00.181+02:00REBUILDING THE WORLD<p> I decided to revamp my seascape. So I pushed the boat out and used 100Kr / 15 Euro on it. Plus time.</p><p>The base is a flamingo/styrene insulation block. This is NOT the pricey type but I coated it with a mix of emulsion, acrylic and PVA glue coloured with ochre. </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi6dA3R-UP0NihDPSnPmvwk934tZRMQZvT9NUGDHXZRu7D3x8H_qaST-QAZuhHxCnn1uiUZX0p9O8JJy7IyWvyZavKrN0DJ-8xY9WnEKE2gfzENnvehadzIp6fS2c1Nk2oZyx4hc_n3guWb/s2048/dikrot+port.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1536" data-original-width="2048" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi6dA3R-UP0NihDPSnPmvwk934tZRMQZvT9NUGDHXZRu7D3x8H_qaST-QAZuhHxCnn1uiUZX0p9O8JJy7IyWvyZavKrN0DJ-8xY9WnEKE2gfzENnvehadzIp6fS2c1Nk2oZyx4hc_n3guWb/s320/dikrot+port.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>I first cut the basic shapes. Then I used a coarse rasp to round them. Then I used rough sandpaper to get the final shape before painting. THIS IS MESSY. KEEP VACUUM CLEANER CLOSE!</p><p>The flock I used was made by using a coffee grinder on sawdust I had coloured with acrylic paint. The result was sieved with different sieves to produce different size texture fractions. It was sprinkled onto wet painted areas. When fixed in place i painted it again with a dilute PVA solution. </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbN5RM_Cf0-tAhMIliRNoyShQlNzEwDqCPWXWhyMyaxQH5aItp6gq7Y17Qg7fCH-IAaW-qXR2DE2Il9xenoM3fll_UNSnBKpeU1C1xYOOR57EcG5S9fSCpqP3sqaAArRJecLFbpzyrnSBG/s2048/scene3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1536" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbN5RM_Cf0-tAhMIliRNoyShQlNzEwDqCPWXWhyMyaxQH5aItp6gq7Y17Qg7fCH-IAaW-qXR2DE2Il9xenoM3fll_UNSnBKpeU1C1xYOOR57EcG5S9fSCpqP3sqaAArRJecLFbpzyrnSBG/s320/scene3.jpg" width="240" /></a></div><p>The vegetation is lousy old foam from a dead chair cut with scissors and additionally shredded in a coffee grinder (out of commission for kitchen use!). The foam was coloured with a mix of PVA and acrylic paint, It becomes harder when impregnated with dried paint.</p><p>I tried putting pins on trees as trunks but at 2mm scale this is not worth the trouble. The bushes and trees are glued directly to the ground with PVA.</p><p>The buildings are Hotz Roman Seas printed to 2mm scale. A little tricky to assemble but no big problem. They are then glued to a base then painted with PVA as a varnish and toughener.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkeIsy9KcWCtZ5Noa3ucijuttzW-jH6fgCAkRbFo66PsBlL2936QC8m-VdbqRT5p1pDiLvchyphenhyphen8P0rgTPyXXp-sobIetEV1LDPG86s3T5eHgMO7Z0PFy25BcGFtLvr6lsh0qXHlYAA3Yq19/s2048/scene2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1536" data-original-width="2048" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkeIsy9KcWCtZ5Noa3ucijuttzW-jH6fgCAkRbFo66PsBlL2936QC8m-VdbqRT5p1pDiLvchyphenhyphen8P0rgTPyXXp-sobIetEV1LDPG86s3T5eHgMO7Z0PFy25BcGFtLvr6lsh0qXHlYAA3Yq19/s320/scene2.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><p>The bays are real sand finely sieved glued onto acetate.</p><p>Quays and moles and towers are fine flamingo from chocolate box If I remember right. Could be card etc.</p><p>Add sea and ships to taste.</p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-41590880103320650182021-09-18T23:14:00.004+02:002021-09-18T23:14:53.244+02:00HERE COME THE DOUBLE-DECKERS...<p></p><div style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCwc982O50E6ZNCRbp0JMJtNw4OYDA6Pv34XwYhuLFNglSnKv2NnjvwLh9oa9H-ZI-w-nIBCDeZ-m0-vEWevCxHmrFDxjbO8w2Jee6WvUwjGHT9y_Ws6yq8cmtMpq6uX9qJ4YAmRwCD1AB/s745/doubledeckers3-1-745x420.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="420" data-original-width="745" height="180" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCwc982O50E6ZNCRbp0JMJtNw4OYDA6Pv34XwYhuLFNglSnKv2NnjvwLh9oa9H-ZI-w-nIBCDeZ-m0-vEWevCxHmrFDxjbO8w2Jee6WvUwjGHT9y_Ws6yq8cmtMpq6uX9qJ4YAmRwCD1AB/s320/doubledeckers3-1-745x420.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p></p><p>Sounds better than 'Here Come the Dikrotic Pentekontereis' for a kids' TV programme. As I wrote this I almost got PTSD on remembering seeing this show occasionally. But in black and white.</p><p>No, this is a late post to show my double-decker pentekontereis I made last spring but forgot to launch properly.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg2YzZ2qutXnIH5MXtwu8DVFTnV0C_N96dQoo9Jc8Ejh0skkbfFI1F6cFYWepZEZhp1iU6jdZAEj8fnsVfRIKENqh1heWpvR3Pn_GExWlRF4rwjId7yl0qOdTcl_Xl_vYnoHilW_uSeo98R/s2048/dikrot+port.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1536" data-original-width="2048" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg2YzZ2qutXnIH5MXtwu8DVFTnV0C_N96dQoo9Jc8Ejh0skkbfFI1F6cFYWepZEZhp1iU6jdZAEj8fnsVfRIKENqh1heWpvR3Pn_GExWlRF4rwjId7yl0qOdTcl_Xl_vYnoHilW_uSeo98R/s320/dikrot+port.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Dikrotic pentekontereis leave port as 'open' triereis enter</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>The double-tiered pentekonter was the spark which led to the triereis. The actual mechanism first used to achieve this is not agreed. Either the oarlocks were set one above the other or they were staggered. Staggering the oarlocks required the invention of the parexeiresia and gave a lowe overall height and a more stable ship.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8Xp2wwvIN3xF6WkZ4H0qd9fWW1ZbYQclKCBFfPIG20N0DqurijTr53IKURRwU3NRHpTUOt9Myng82m-jsMOC1BDoEZRfC_jtRKBoaUvtPJEARNh0TTeG4guZWpDsJaKujAq4Y-saOroGM/s600/dikkrotic_pentekonter1_sec.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="400" data-original-width="600" height="213" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8Xp2wwvIN3xF6WkZ4H0qd9fWW1ZbYQclKCBFfPIG20N0DqurijTr53IKURRwU3NRHpTUOt9Myng82m-jsMOC1BDoEZRfC_jtRKBoaUvtPJEARNh0TTeG4guZWpDsJaKujAq4Y-saOroGM/s320/dikkrotic_pentekonter1_sec.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">upper tier with thole pins on the parexeiresia</td></tr></tbody></table><p>Superimposed oarlocks meant a higher ship superstructure and the side of the ship was equipped with permanently fixed screens between the rowers.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9ODGwKZYVjk0NLfUpDYTIf4uxZunegTzWKpLj3QXvbh4AjxTKQuOAOC0aiP5fRTT_BGQlW50GlInw8fYBrfuepm5pCjMA0iY8x6Ukhj__i0KBpl-xA29juTYYpMdqjyk6B5coOZgXt1Y1/s993/ninships1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="633" data-original-width="993" height="204" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9ODGwKZYVjk0NLfUpDYTIf4uxZunegTzWKpLj3QXvbh4AjxTKQuOAOC0aiP5fRTT_BGQlW50GlInw8fYBrfuepm5pCjMA0iY8x6Ukhj__i0KBpl-xA29juTYYpMdqjyk6B5coOZgXt1Y1/s320/ninships1.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">War- and cargo-galleys. Both two-tier. Nineveh stelae showing Sidonian ship. Some say these are triereis with unmanned uppermost tiers...c.700BC</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>Some have resolved the puzzle about how the dikrotic ship was arrived at by allowing for two versions to be developed at different places simultaneously.</p><p>Part of the reason for the presence of two models may be due to different ways of representing the same thing. Maybe different conventions of how a ship was drawn prevailed at different places.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi-ZZvV4CXMeDexa8UO37ypamhC_HoAgAS4Cxg-jUzoTaTxH6xm5-31JDr9jl9_Iy4IVcuYh10uc4-h6qINO43aJagnK_cUnYGw4d7psZI4VtWnhwJqv53rViaun5z879rLUsmlzEbm6hmz/s1091/DIPYLONSHIP.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="327" data-original-width="1091" height="96" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi-ZZvV4CXMeDexa8UO37ypamhC_HoAgAS4Cxg-jUzoTaTxH6xm5-31JDr9jl9_Iy4IVcuYh10uc4-h6qINO43aJagnK_cUnYGw4d7psZI4VtWnhwJqv53rViaun5z879rLUsmlzEbm6hmz/s320/DIPYLONSHIP.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Geometric Period ship. The earliest dikrotik pentekonter -<br /> OR - a monokrote drawn in semi- persepective 800BCish</td></tr></tbody></table><p>The modified ship was the pentekonter. This is why the resulting ship was a 50-oarer too. The shorter hull was less stressed in waves and allowed rapid turning which was key for ramming combat. Overall speed was less but for a warship type which was not expected to make extended voyages this must have been a reasonable trade-off.</p><p>The new ship was called a pentekonter. Not so helpful. It is difficult to tell if a dikrotic ship is meant when pentekontereis are mentioned in written sources. However, for a limited period, from c. 700BC down to 625 or so when the triereis was developed references must mean the most effective ship is meant, i.e. a two-tier ship. Thereafter, it is difficult to see how we can differentiate. A one-level pentekonter could be a scout ship or courier because it was faster but in a battle it would have been an easy mark for two or three-level vessels.</p><p>Somewhat more helpfully, new light warships with two tiers crop up with distinctive names. Lemboi, pristi and Liburnians are all double-decker pentekontereis.<a href="https://ramsravensandwrecks.blogspot.com/2021/06/phantom-lemb-syndrome.html" target="_blank"> EARLIER POST ABOUT LEMBI ETC</a></p><p>My models are closed-in ' versions with no visible oarsmen. The complete deck allows the ship to be in a full-scale battle and this type could transport 50 men in addition to the rowers. </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtLECS9R-4v6Hx_CIAMBbIq23aVpHRUg1aYGTtpb12wajydKLPqcTPBIP2-EVZ849npac8I5SbJOXCE5667uEw_RO-khl60VsiOzq7_IpYfilpn13I-8jI-OgOQDL-PUQerM-YZH7ViY4S/s2264/dikrotrow.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1110" data-original-width="2264" height="157" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtLECS9R-4v6Hx_CIAMBbIq23aVpHRUg1aYGTtpb12wajydKLPqcTPBIP2-EVZ849npac8I5SbJOXCE5667uEw_RO-khl60VsiOzq7_IpYfilpn13I-8jI-OgOQDL-PUQerM-YZH7ViY4S/s320/dikrotrow.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>Double-deckers did not necessarily have rams. They could fight by using boarding or obstruction tactics.</p><p>Next project...Phoenician pentekontereis and triereis.</p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-19071996660584329472021-09-06T01:06:00.003+02:002021-09-06T01:06:16.270+02:00WORTH A WATCH<p> The Mariners' Museum of Newport News Virginia - home of the USS Monitor - have two series of vids that are worth watching for anyone of a marine bent. I recommend them here on the basis of rams still being used in naval forces then ...plus there are plenty of wrecks ;)</p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjXwKZ8s3Is5m8T_God-dRbiLbf7u1VYuhRDQzl5zuXGae4ggk8V1PkattOmVclKYc81LW2rie4y5Z31O7ALGOgllO_irE3jBPG2kqqNt-h4mR7sXVssjJ5ugvEp3Gdi6yKkVUljzj4Bopi/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="326" data-original-width="480" height="217" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjXwKZ8s3Is5m8T_God-dRbiLbf7u1VYuhRDQzl5zuXGae4ggk8V1PkattOmVclKYc81LW2rie4y5Z31O7ALGOgllO_irE3jBPG2kqqNt-h4mR7sXVssjJ5ugvEp3Gdi6yKkVUljzj4Bopi/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Click to go to their website <a href="https://marinersmuseum.org/" target="_blank">HERE</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>The first are presentations about pictures in their collection of maritime painting. These are presented by their art curator Kyra Duffley. She is knowledgable about the subject and waxes lyrical about some great lesser-known marine paintings. Short vids.</p><p><iframe allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0ZVJ6AoguK8" title="YouTube video player" width="640"></iframe></p><p><br /></p><p>Second is about the naval side of the American Civil War. This is presented by John Quarstein who is an author and steeped in the subject. He has a very enthusiastic and ebullient presentation style which is very welcome for those tired of fast cuts and effects. Longer presentations certainly with detail you will not know about even if you follow the subject. Old school in the best way!<iframe allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WQq7M7mnPMc" title="YouTube video player" width="640"></iframe></p><p><br /></p><p>Give these a try. You will be pleasantly surprised. Not least by some nice southern states accents! Subscribe to them to support thier efforts!</p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-79353169696007642952021-08-24T01:30:00.002+02:002021-08-24T01:30:59.179+02:00SEA OF DOOM #5 : GETTING THE DUCKS IN A ROW - ORDERS OF BATTLE<p> Herodotos conveniently provides orders of battle for the two sides. It is possible to nit-pick over details but in the overall scheme of 1500 or so ships fine details are not so important.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPAC-U6PgZlDMkANaPe-UrvwBrUSjMtqv2GTsuNjI7obu-Gg9kET1pwOUv3EGHHemv6JZrqCeEnZlRX76xAxPMV1C6U_gePtfJnR_AkYIr8Q31Y59u4RZCSIS02P2eSkcnXS1ide3Ry90a/s273/nitpick.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="254" data-original-width="273" height="254" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjPAC-U6PgZlDMkANaPe-UrvwBrUSjMtqv2GTsuNjI7obu-Gg9kET1pwOUv3EGHHemv6JZrqCeEnZlRX76xAxPMV1C6U_gePtfJnR_AkYIr8Q31Y59u4RZCSIS02P2eSkcnXS1ide3Ry90a/s0/nitpick.jpg" width="273" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Rank hath its privileges</td></tr></tbody></table><p>The biggest challenge is to assign the ships to a manageable number of counters. There doesn't seem any point in making a counter for every 10 or 20 or for each ship. The map game is just a way of easily providing variation for the clash of models. To reiterate - because a simple re-run of history is predictable and dull we are seeking here to provide some unexpected surprises and variation whilst still keeping contact with the ancient events.</p><p>The appropriate notes can be scribbled on the reverse of the counters thus preserving some uncertainty for the opponent until the battle lines meet.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_cfWEto3_jju-cBX7NxPk6IrXVz388RtBDcvJyrozTZMS4K7SVqGarX4pzyCY-a-0uLkg8mDgI8PeYZkocJ_Ww0Rjz-1YYIDq_dNR7Di97ebx2GGShd00iXCFpXF_RvJUXEe-gj6zROM8/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="630" data-original-width="935" height="216" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_cfWEto3_jju-cBX7NxPk6IrXVz388RtBDcvJyrozTZMS4K7SVqGarX4pzyCY-a-0uLkg8mDgI8PeYZkocJ_Ww0Rjz-1YYIDq_dNR7Di97ebx2GGShd00iXCFpXF_RvJUXEe-gj6zROM8/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">My obols are on the cat</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p><b>GREEKS</b> - these can be ordered after ethnic lines relatively easily. The massive Athenian contingent being divided to make sure each counter includes about 30 ships.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgELfKFcocIGRiz-YIAavV07jpphgcsS77VRRHjaRT61dZe7w3jvH5C9oIibtc7HaM_nyQdL6s8Exu1vyQFu7TjbcT4eQ515kmMsEdCNDvVsz_v1LU8it49aeb1MFzMvY7FdtPLSoOwO_Tb/s749/HOPETHNICS.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="749" data-original-width="736" height="256" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgELfKFcocIGRiz-YIAavV07jpphgcsS77VRRHjaRT61dZe7w3jvH5C9oIibtc7HaM_nyQdL6s8Exu1vyQFu7TjbcT4eQ515kmMsEdCNDvVsz_v1LU8it49aeb1MFzMvY7FdtPLSoOwO_Tb/w252-h256/HOPETHNICS.jpg" width="252" /></a></div><br /><p><b>PERSIANS</b> - fewer and larger contingents mean we can follow a similar principle but allot about 100 ships to each counter - one could just as easily use 50 - so as to keep the number of counters manageable.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgy8glwIdSS9196feDQqyMV_8IO4Mr8A9KYgyVHYbCbNVhu71MtogmN9-ME9IMWC5-CjvoRoQMJceWnaSu6ptfIpJAYjiV0zPy_WLUFehG2D3UzK5daZSZ45hSckY2PV3E_-BcMxPeX2E2g/s700/ethnics.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="420" data-original-width="700" height="192" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgy8glwIdSS9196feDQqyMV_8IO4Mr8A9KYgyVHYbCbNVhu71MtogmN9-ME9IMWC5-CjvoRoQMJceWnaSu6ptfIpJAYjiV0zPy_WLUFehG2D3UzK5daZSZ45hSckY2PV3E_-BcMxPeX2E2g/s320/ethnics.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><p></p><p>A NOTE ON QUALITY - Following the basic variables of <span style="font-size: large;"><b>+ / - / = </b></span>as outlined before, each counter needs to be labelled for quality. + being superior, = being average and - being deficient. There is no need to refer to rules here because who knows what models and rules will be used at last? Just the relative quality needs to be known for now.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjM13pYn4kGU7J2Dd0D7CLWRpOo4eIUllbMUjp5Z49cYqukqe69en7LrWkH85hN0CxykEDpuAdkLy3agGqQm49irDp8WnAdNBDQwGTSrPxF1hG20dpddh_ngeBgkLFSAVeoXtd2yd3_fDK6/" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="" data-original-height="264" data-original-width="360" height="235" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjM13pYn4kGU7J2Dd0D7CLWRpOo4eIUllbMUjp5Z49cYqukqe69en7LrWkH85hN0CxykEDpuAdkLy3agGqQm49irDp8WnAdNBDQwGTSrPxF1hG20dpddh_ngeBgkLFSAVeoXtd2yd3_fDK6/" width="320" /></a></div><br /><span style="font-size: medium;"><b>ORDERS OF BATTLE FOR SALAMIS - COUNTER BY COUNTER</b> </span><p></p><p><b>GREEKS</b> - 12 COUNTERS about 30 per counter</p><p>ATHENS - 6 counters each of 30 ships 3 + 3=</p><p>MEGARA - 20 ships =</p><p>NORTHERN STATES - Ambracia7, Leucas3, Ceos 2 Pentekonters, Naxos1, Styra 2, Cynthus 1 plus 1pentekonter, Crotoniats1, Melians 2 pentekonters, Syphnians 1 pentekonter, Serephians 1 pentekonter all rated -</p><p>EUBOEANS - Troezen2, Hermione3, Chalkis20, Eretria7 all rated -</p><p>PELOPONNESIANS - Sparta 16, Sicyon15, Epidaurus10 all rated =</p><p>CORINTH - 40 rated +</p><p>AEGINA - 30 rated +</p><p><br /></p><p><b>PERSIANS </b>- 12 COUNTERS about 100 per counter</p><p>PHOENICIANS - 3 x 100 ships all rated +</p><p>EGYPTIANS - 2 x 100 ships all rated +</p><p>HELLESPONTINES - 100 rated =</p><p>IONIAN GREEKS - 100 rated =</p><p>DORIANS AND CARIANS - 100 rated =</p><p>CYPRIANS - 150 rated =</p><p>CILICIANS - 100 rated -</p><p>AEOLIANS AND ISLANDERS - 77 rated -</p><p>PAMPHYLIANS AND LYKIANS - 80 rated -</p><p>The ratings can be tweaked as desired. The main thing is to give variation to each fleet.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjaMj37kkvbTIJhKPKIf1d_GbOCun3qZIb5LImUWWmFILDoHvJCfGA8O-A-tgpDLjAOwioiWwJjukpbkkp65HWkcJKhAR40cBqGUz2m2EAzFvaPcToKXvmqjllovIZCgd1PUOt_upXLa1Tx/s549/FLEETGRK.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="270" data-original-width="549" height="157" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjaMj37kkvbTIJhKPKIf1d_GbOCun3qZIb5LImUWWmFILDoHvJCfGA8O-A-tgpDLjAOwioiWwJjukpbkkp65HWkcJKhAR40cBqGUz2m2EAzFvaPcToKXvmqjllovIZCgd1PUOt_upXLa1Tx/s320/FLEETGRK.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-41872919894631510442021-08-22T13:41:00.002+02:002021-08-22T13:41:28.009+02:00ALWAYS GOOD WITH SOME EXTRA WAR-GALLEYS : COUNTERS<p> Counters for the Sea of Doom. The idea is to scribble info on the reverse. Stick to thick card.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjnzx9vlnK6Y-EVAPxTjf0G-GIUz23iNZehWeuT8fcdcqzv5279QkEHltjkcVPA-Sum5JydfV3MwhuZwyoJa3K0FQRS-as3IEjlYUi4IOzrpjf-bsHhyphenhypheniDNh_Pv2J5WeOXV7kzXQUC6TXid/s850/countersheet1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="850" data-original-width="715" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjnzx9vlnK6Y-EVAPxTjf0G-GIUz23iNZehWeuT8fcdcqzv5279QkEHltjkcVPA-Sum5JydfV3MwhuZwyoJa3K0FQRS-as3IEjlYUi4IOzrpjf-bsHhyphenhypheniDNh_Pv2J5WeOXV7kzXQUC6TXid/w336-h400/countersheet1.png" width="336" /></a></div><br /><p></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-89366290271646932832021-08-06T00:51:00.006+02:002021-08-06T00:53:12.658+02:00SALAMIS : SEA OF DOOM #4<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYp0DHpmkxDVB7yo5cM_T-3FXm95ksREDiWMKzwDBwaZ5B67mbx3Igl2HWz-YOdrLfyzsTOJ25ZRhb0eGJ7xrLJv-Sa2R7FwCFbW9uKF8_5PuoAw-JIn7ltMpGYPExrcl5Wv2r8ETspb6C/s1191/WRECKVERsmaller.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="627" data-original-width="1191" height="168" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYp0DHpmkxDVB7yo5cM_T-3FXm95ksREDiWMKzwDBwaZ5B67mbx3Igl2HWz-YOdrLfyzsTOJ25ZRhb0eGJ7xrLJv-Sa2R7FwCFbW9uKF8_5PuoAw-JIn7ltMpGYPExrcl5Wv2r8ETspb6C/s320/WRECKVERsmaller.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: justify;"><span style="text-align: left;">The seascape needs to be established at two levels.</span></div><p>STRATEGIC / FLEET LEVEL and Tactical Level - which we save for next time...</p><p>We need to know where the different squadrons were moved to, harboured, and where they deployed.</p><p>The potential area over which the fleets could be deployed ranges round the whole of the Salamian coast and over to Phaleron where the Persians had their main base.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEihwD0RNy0LMtlyZiU9vmyPD-HKu3jV_bdiXSllERUcg9TJT_o8KKn5oDg-6rVAvRfjxM3gR_XZ8yWLGVONYEWxwIZp5qbIqP9kaGChqNJu29ucecOrkUTPRu8pnSeFux3sNrKnV5-ikonl/s1824/SALAMIS+BASEFEATURES.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1116" data-original-width="1824" height="196" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEihwD0RNy0LMtlyZiU9vmyPD-HKu3jV_bdiXSllERUcg9TJT_o8KKn5oDg-6rVAvRfjxM3gR_XZ8yWLGVONYEWxwIZp5qbIqP9kaGChqNJu29ucecOrkUTPRu8pnSeFux3sNrKnV5-ikonl/s320/SALAMIS+BASEFEATURES.png" width="320" /></a></div><p>The Corinthians supposedly fled into the Gulf of Eleusis on their way to the Isthmus of Corinth where their land forces, the Spartans and others were constructing a wall to block the Persians from entering the Peleponnesus. </p><p>Xerxes supposedly sent his Egyptian ships to block any escape attempt such as the Corinthians may have made. They went south round Salamis to plug the straits at Megara.</p><p>Next we have to allow some space for the Persians to mooch around all night at sea while they blocked the entrance to the Salamis straits. A player might wish to rush into the narrows immediately but the option must b ethere to remain at sea off Phaleron.</p><p>For the Greeks, inside the straits, they need the possibility to harbour their ships in different configurations.</p><p>The sea space needs to be chopped up into areas. We dont want a hex map. We dont need a map accurate in foot furlong and fathom but it should relate directly to the space available.</p><p>The pre-battle period, when ships can be shuffled around, lasts from dusk to dawn. Within this time the Egyptians must be able to get to the Megaran straits and back to the battle during the a.m. .</p><p>That trip is around 30km. It has to be accomplished between 6pm (dusk) to 6.30am(dawn). This gives us a scale to 'grid' the seascape at this 'fleet' level. </p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQKX5c7oqgshJOnaFUBQ8p2LDTYuA2t6aZlX365WKcfg3sdFGfE8SdzJQx2iuxtWHZb7NiBy7efE3YN0Q4p7_zPITyUhPI-TLRyxLQFW4r3JbEl_1x_5kZOq5S0FQeH8b1SbguaLGPy_Ib/s900/SALAMISGAMEBASE1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="647" data-original-width="900" height="230" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiQKX5c7oqgshJOnaFUBQ8p2LDTYuA2t6aZlX365WKcfg3sdFGfE8SdzJQx2iuxtWHZb7NiBy7efE3YN0Q4p7_zPITyUhPI-TLRyxLQFW4r3JbEl_1x_5kZOq5S0FQeH8b1SbguaLGPy_Ib/s320/SALAMISGAMEBASE1.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Suitable base-ic base-map</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>The 12 hours of darkness need to be part of the game to set up the battle. But we do not want to have to go through every minute. Let's start with 4 3 hour moves - just to start things.</p><p>This means ONE turn of 'fleet level' movement will get us from Phaleron to west Salamis. Arbitrarily, then, we divide this on the map into 6 areas.</p><p>Now it is simply a question of chopping the rest of the map into similar sized pieces.</p><p>This gives a counter representing a group of triereis a movement of 3 areas in a single 3 hour 'fleet level' game turn.</p><p>We can also make the proviso that to get ships out or harbour and into the adjacent sea area takes a whole move.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXkr22TGJMto3G5fOe91LSoV7jSmjB3dR3PST-A6cqUx80bd89o2NPcr3PfTuPLT_7wnwPJUjJ73BqQj7LENWb0Y4YuTOR3Lzt9PYLN2M43R4cOlWofL46iI2RJdxpQrwEAC-N-pXIJkIQ/s908/SALAMISGAMEBASE4.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="646" data-original-width="908" height="228" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXkr22TGJMto3G5fOe91LSoV7jSmjB3dR3PST-A6cqUx80bd89o2NPcr3PfTuPLT_7wnwPJUjJ73BqQj7LENWb0Y4YuTOR3Lzt9PYLN2M43R4cOlWofL46iI2RJdxpQrwEAC-N-pXIJkIQ/s320/SALAMISGAMEBASE4.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><p></p><p>THE STRAITS</p><p>We need to be careful about the situation in the straits. Let's make sure the area inside Psyttalea and St George is a single area. If forces get here then they face each other in the same area - forcing our battle onto the historical focus area.</p><p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhInWWgN86IaHx-6Ol05L-padxoF_b0-Q24WICkH3gL76rQIdrfzcIPOOSXz24TFs5rSmslHPBCcyRvp7XNzaGDL56UTjv5t2tlGCCd33dcDeJRuDYc_pb_onUzYq_A0sCt_PpVNzAV9coO/s375/narrows1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="375" data-original-width="300" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhInWWgN86IaHx-6Ol05L-padxoF_b0-Q24WICkH3gL76rQIdrfzcIPOOSXz24TFs5rSmslHPBCcyRvp7XNzaGDL56UTjv5t2tlGCCd33dcDeJRuDYc_pb_onUzYq_A0sCt_PpVNzAV9coO/s320/narrows1.jpg" width="256" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A boyhood favourite! (before I found war-galleys!)</td></tr></tbody></table><br /></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: justify;"><span style="text-align: left;">The same should stand for the Megaran straits - if a confrontation happens there we make the whole strait 1 area for ease.</span></div><p></p><p><br /></p><p>THE HARBOURS</p><p>We also need to make arrangement for the harbouring of our fleets. </p><p>The clock starts ticking with all ships on their way to moor at the end of the day. Both fleets' crews want to go ashore to stuff their faces. </p><p><b>The Persians</b> only have Phaleron as a base. The bay is wide and can accommodate the whole fleet.</p><p>There is no tactical interest in making any other arrangement for our game.</p><p><b>The Greeks</b> have three harbours. Even if you think one or other is unfeasible - if we allow the use of all three we get more interesting variability in the action.</p><p>Several arrangements are possible. </p><p>1) Allow the whole fleet to be moored in any of the bays.</p><p>2) Allow half or two thirds to fit in each bay - forcing a spread.</p><p>3) Allow 1/3 in each bay - forcing maximum spread.</p><p>I prefer to allow full fleet capacity in one and less capacity in the two others. This is easily varied but the northern most mooring is likely to have been the worst and it is by no means certain either the other two could have acommodated the whole fleet.</p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhrMbiiuSJu-Uxzz2dMKFJvZ166fp4snbKHEoqxJU-H35QwDWhtV09PULerM-Xywc9enimD2Lv6hvv3Ghotqp4KSgZttMwTKo8pfkLNHPXfIt5OpTHvrWiiYYy390ZFEylzr2T4Q8cczwD7/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="168" data-original-width="247" height="218" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhrMbiiuSJu-Uxzz2dMKFJvZ166fp4snbKHEoqxJU-H35QwDWhtV09PULerM-Xywc9enimD2Lv6hvv3Ghotqp4KSgZttMwTKo8pfkLNHPXfIt5OpTHvrWiiYYy390ZFEylzr2T4Q8cczwD7/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">100 ships per capacity point - 380 ships to get a berth</td></tr></tbody></table><br />In terms of 'fleet game' mechanics - a group of ships (a counter) is 'moored' or it is 'at sea'. It takes a turn to move from the shore out to be at sea in an adjacent area.<p></p><p>Yes this is all arbitrary. But it is with reference to a realistic time and space scheme and it will be easily tweakable once we try it out.</p><p>PHYSICAL COMPONENTS</p><p>This 'fleet level' part of the game will be a simple paper map with counters.</p><p>We need map and counters. 50/100 ships per counter to start with , or varying according to the historical contingents. </p><p>We also need a time/turn track. </p><p>We need a simple set of rules to move the counters on the map.</p><p>More we do not need.</p><p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj3ce2Re9F4LeopeJuNB-0JQCpoEscz8PqNx49duuxdv2KipWYxnZF9slmJJSYGuM4KdJ0zQIKMMxIGD-E5ksOCSNBB4Fxg05Yw-rUeibyHTrYoWHo4qTiSGSANmr31Xw2UqQzT9oUvfIj6/s894/botsandboards.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="389" data-original-width="894" height="139" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj3ce2Re9F4LeopeJuNB-0JQCpoEscz8PqNx49duuxdv2KipWYxnZF9slmJJSYGuM4KdJ0zQIKMMxIGD-E5ksOCSNBB4Fxg05Yw-rUeibyHTrYoWHo4qTiSGSANmr31Xw2UqQzT9oUvfIj6/s320/botsandboards.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Avoid simply remaking 'Trireme' boardgame!!!!</td></tr></tbody></table></p><p>THE TIME TRACK AND STRATEGIC EVENTS - DECISIONS</p><p>There are key decisions/events which affect how the battle occurred. It is possible to make a list of many small details but we are doing this exercise to arrive at a battle game - the cart must not be set before the horse.</p><p>I summarise the key elements which can decide how elements of the battle fall out.</p><p>1) When does Xerxes send his fleet to sea?</p><p>2) When or if Xerxes sends a blocking contingent to the Megaran straits.</p><p>3) When do the Aeginetians arrive with intelligence about the Persians? (and what info?)</p><p>4) When / if the Tenians desert the Persians and bring intelligence.</p><p>5) When / if the Corinthians leave the fleet (or other contingents? ) and when they return / if?</p><p>6) When does the Greek fleet go to sea and where ?</p><p>7) When does Xerxes send what contingents into the straits of Salamis?</p><p><br /></p><p>These factors can all be varied in the simplest way as follows..</p><p>+ factor - more than historical effect</p><p>= factor - historical effect</p><p>- factor - less than historical effect</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEianlKtzJukpvBKuxwBg_ReigbIsHz26vt7p1cH69FCrdc7PISKmG7VnJ8ymcXc8d2YqHM-NYoTmNVK2d-_8mFuTy1CAneh18OsaYkCvY9dkq9dwhnWc8Y_nNBYujPsyebZhnSuKhPChGA4/s1324/bsw1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1324" data-original-width="1300" height="238" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEianlKtzJukpvBKuxwBg_ReigbIsHz26vt7p1cH69FCrdc7PISKmG7VnJ8ymcXc8d2YqHM-NYoTmNVK2d-_8mFuTy1CAneh18OsaYkCvY9dkq9dwhnWc8Y_nNBYujPsyebZhnSuKhPChGA4/w233-h238/bsw1.jpg" width="233" /></a></div><br />What this means is that one ends with stack of 21 or so cards to be drawn at different stages which indicate each player's options.<p></p><p>The cards will be drawn at appropriate times. We end up with a game turn clock something like this.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjV62F8ez0VxSXhRYh-I1Mo_l4UsiBT3LxUAe4CQ6PXhXqzFqAI_BdYoNNbWSe2UyQh-vjPG0gZwBcwsIIFoNeU5zl1xlbOu1cT5b9_4BrDdq9Z5IjhPm6syHA-IdQPA88bY3pKEDCOYSk2/s983/SALAMISEVENTSTABLE.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="522" data-original-width="983" height="170" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjV62F8ez0VxSXhRYh-I1Mo_l4UsiBT3LxUAe4CQ6PXhXqzFqAI_BdYoNNbWSe2UyQh-vjPG0gZwBcwsIIFoNeU5zl1xlbOu1cT5b9_4BrDdq9Z5IjhPm6syHA-IdQPA88bY3pKEDCOYSk2/s320/SALAMISEVENTSTABLE.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>We now have a framework for how the pre-battle events develop.</p><p>We must bear in mind that there are certain pre-requisites for this exercise. If we allow every last influence to be factored in we can easily discover that the battle was actually most unlikely to have taken place.</p><p>We are accepting that Themistocles' lure of a disintegrating Greek fleet which could be caught in the process of retreating was accepted by Xerxes. We are also accepting that the Greeks planned to fight in narrow confines not only to accentate their strengths but also out of experience gained at Artemesium. </p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiB2IvS-PPii0H6X_qDaHxIrsIQFwK-snmauY27Sm2hGNSh7Zul_zwBbrqIWSlEeDAz9SWgu5VnKy8s6rH9KVkCOWL6zxpeXhC67LxgL1bce3XzJIEIPXGL_jCeCl3HkIAgv_a1LkVKFOc0/s539/luretake.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="460" data-original-width="539" height="273" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiB2IvS-PPii0H6X_qDaHxIrsIQFwK-snmauY27Sm2hGNSh7Zul_zwBbrqIWSlEeDAz9SWgu5VnKy8s6rH9KVkCOWL6zxpeXhC67LxgL1bce3XzJIEIPXGL_jCeCl3HkIAgv_a1LkVKFOc0/s320/luretake.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Looks juicy,but...</td></tr></tbody></table><p>The key is to set the scen for a battle at Salamis which was historically possible but which presents uncertainties and decision-making challenges for the players.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>TACTICAL / BATTLE LEVEL</b></p><p>We need a system to allow the battle to be laid out and fought on the tabletop...NEXT EPISODE</p><p><br /></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-674946524693842632021-07-26T22:08:00.002+02:002021-07-27T13:30:27.883+02:00SALAMIS REFIGHTS#3 : THE SEA OF DOOM ALMOST<p>It is easy to see how one can quickly drown in the literature concerned with Salamis.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjD9VM7Z84N5wJKKXypvwp7Qamul8CBPIqMWr4gZULJILd2p0aWJ132E1Bkni5V6bMqOQ94Qb9PmU6f1XxFSR_oT7uiWZePiyue4eHaabNEPkCF95nTUF1f14xQgvoS7J4cOxvN39U2ztn2/s1280/BOOKPILES.JPG" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="960" data-original-width="1280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjD9VM7Z84N5wJKKXypvwp7Qamul8CBPIqMWr4gZULJILd2p0aWJ132E1Bkni5V6bMqOQ94Qb9PmU6f1XxFSR_oT7uiWZePiyue4eHaabNEPkCF95nTUF1f14xQgvoS7J4cOxvN39U2ztn2/s320/BOOKPILES.JPG" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span>There is a veritable hæmerroid of books available about Salamis</span></td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>To make a recreation of the battle from reading one quickly gets bogged down in academic debates on individual details such as...</p><p>Did the Egyptian Squadron go to the Megaran Straits?</p><p>Did the Aiginetians make a flank attack, an ambush or even arrive late in the day?</p><p>Did the Corinthians make a feigned flight, a real flight or never flee at all?</p><p>Did the Greeks back water ? If so, how much ? How long?</p><p>etc.</p><p>So a broad view is needed - and remember IT IS FATAL TO GO DOWN THE ROAD OF RECREATING WHAT MODERN HISTORIANS THINK HAPPENED IN HISTORY.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIe_b7P-qKg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="532" data-original-width="948" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNdNUet8EvE16lsYHlSFgaq-Om6cQf6Y3ihVXyIr4UVK1_iZW4HEc7yPmdXlNuzmQFshvoZhBdu5PsKBzvNhrYK4_v9e_BWhXxOvjEAkcD5unuauicxBELuwG5arbGs3NCMypYKie7l2RI/s320/lemmyrut.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>Historians work to synthesise a believable narrative. They filter the variety and wealth of material available to establish a believable, defendable framework. This is not what gamers do. Gamers should establish and identify parameters and factors and then effectively run a Monte Carlo simulation. </p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhynZNIKGb5y9HCbGQ4F20cUqpaBsNxolVLCAGlUdnLcAZV9_D2Z703FSlp_iM2HTc_ADvUeHprjorMcPmTYl-XxlIT8_L7Hs9j4nhiRSKHynkMjZxEyH7MRj-yg9rkX4CxsbCt73lDlHq1/s1667/monteniv.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="965" data-original-width="1667" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhynZNIKGb5y9HCbGQ4F20cUqpaBsNxolVLCAGlUdnLcAZV9_D2Z703FSlp_iM2HTc_ADvUeHprjorMcPmTYl-XxlIT8_L7Hs9j4nhiRSKHynkMjZxEyH7MRj-yg9rkX4CxsbCt73lDlHq1/s320/monteniv.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Some would say a Fleming Simulation - but it is actually a genuine article </td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>We are interested in plausible what ifs. We are not interested in introducing spaceships and we are not interested in agreeing the historical outcome was the only one possible because of the historically prevalent conditions. The interest is in the variability. </p><p>We have a few certainties for Salamis.</p><p>We KNOW the Greeks were not destroyed by the battle</p><p>We KNOW Xerxes withdrew from Greece after failing to deliver knock-out blows to either of the Greek land forces or naval forces.</p><p>We KNOW Xerxes had moved the largest army and navy the world had ever seen from Asia Minor to Attica and after the battle it was the end of the usual season for campaigning.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCn47ulrOXypV14iyTw8MjGpdsI5rk5hJxRKPsOrnHJXQlbEvJayV8vquMIS7vCsrRrOvrdjN_dEYFFPYL4LVeVcxdyGH0zI-JkT4T0FYNANwvKpegPEFa_oylGojfBx0UBDtlA3BNjnyX/s940/Scotland_Forever-940x476.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="476" data-original-width="940" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhCn47ulrOXypV14iyTw8MjGpdsI5rk5hJxRKPsOrnHJXQlbEvJayV8vquMIS7vCsrRrOvrdjN_dEYFFPYL4LVeVcxdyGH0zI-JkT4T0FYNANwvKpegPEFa_oylGojfBx0UBDtlA3BNjnyX/s320/Scotland_Forever-940x476.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/clemensmoromassacre.html" target="_blank">Print( or paint) the myth!</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>The winner of any ancient war-galley battle could mop-up at will, kill defenceless sailors and troops isolated on an island. The Greeks held the strait after the battle and kept the Persians off Salamis and kept a fleet in being but we do not know they smashed the Persian fleet. The Phoenicians went home in a fit of pique but there were plenty of them to go home - the elite of the Persian fleet who bore the brunt of the battle..</p><p>For Herodotos and Aeschylus the fact that the Persian fleet left was enough. Surely this was evidence of defeat. 300 'noble' warriors were slain on Psyttalia but what relevance had 300 in a battle involving up to 180,000 men !</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgM_obEGreuBcVXvhkz3zL1AKoBJK_VE8dTfvqu8SaJHbZexH-n16YoaNh3UBy7aDo25FOMpfW71xNq6PO0qdnzXzizRH7zqlUasi_duUimnPCn2kRnY-2EzD_IBsKFL2c1OKpgu6edmtje/s344/cant-see-the-forest-for-the-trees-cartoon-300x344.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="344" data-original-width="300" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgM_obEGreuBcVXvhkz3zL1AKoBJK_VE8dTfvqu8SaJHbZexH-n16YoaNh3UBy7aDo25FOMpfW71xNq6PO0qdnzXzizRH7zqlUasi_duUimnPCn2kRnY-2EzD_IBsKFL2c1OKpgu6edmtje/s320/cant-see-the-forest-for-the-trees-cartoon-300x344.jpg" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><p></p><p>But apart from these details....everything else is open for variation to create an interesting confrontation on the table.</p><p><span> </span>We do not know where the battle happened.</p><p><span> </span>We do not know the strength of Persian forces involved, even if we agree the Greek ship total is <span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>believable.</p><p><span> </span>There is potential argument over the natur eof the ships used on both sides and the number of fighting <span> </span>men aboard them.</p><p>We need to identify and highlight key factors which affect the ancient battle. These factors must not be too numerous and they must have a substantial effect. These will be the basis for the kriegspieling or simulation of the engagement.</p><p>To be clear. The game needs to include variable set-ups, variable deployments, even variable sides if there were factors which could have changed those which occurred on the day.</p><p>The variables we elect to involve in the game will only be those that affect the day's proceedings in an interesting way. The location of Xerxes throne is not relevant but the location of his admirals is.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEibsB2FV19RiIUiIOziiOPcd8913N59wNvIpJTMYZaQKgk8OTVnWhaWVhXyC6t3QCLdFtZrgf9v_KkBUoC1aSMDDrUKPb6NvpK_C3i74GLgCXhhnQFduUMHfJQzVqwzMLK9bp0_z5QBI_1i/s1080/XERXESLANDL1.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="860" data-original-width="1080" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEibsB2FV19RiIUiIOziiOPcd8913N59wNvIpJTMYZaQKgk8OTVnWhaWVhXyC6t3QCLdFtZrgf9v_KkBUoC1aSMDDrUKPb6NvpK_C3i74GLgCXhhnQFduUMHfJQzVqwzMLK9bp0_z5QBI_1i/s320/XERXESLANDL1.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Ruggero Giovanini's epic picture of Salamis from Xerxes' perspective : <a href="https://www.lookandlearn.com/blog/11069/the-best-pictures-of-xerxes-king-of-the-persians/" target="_blank">LOOK AND LEARN</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p><br /></p><p>Next - Build the battle as a gaming model.</p><p><br /></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-53446299453890708632021-07-26T01:31:00.001+02:002021-07-26T01:32:41.942+02:00NEW DOWN THE SLIPWAY : Monokrotic Pentekontereis<p>The pentekonter was the precursor to the trieres. It was the F4, a great fighter from a generation previous to, and totally outclassed by, the F15 - the trieres - which ushered in a new concept of ancient galley warfare. The pentekonter could cruise at 4.5knots or make a burst of speed possibly up to 6 knots. It could accelerate faster than a triakonter but nothing like the trieres. It could not turn as sharply as the smaller ship but probably as well as a trieres.</p><p><br /></p><p>The pentekonter had 50 oars - the name means a '50' . The ship was probably 30 metres or so long and the vase paintings which show them depict elegant vessels with fine lines. They were fast and agile. With a beam at the waterline of only 2.3 metres or so and a draught of 0.6 metres.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgj8wLUyvrWXqiEZ3AkVEivXfOdRKhA2Lfn9hDgPdvnj36LWTR7ZcUHsr4_zo_FjIaBE2V2-xcZveWyQk9frwMa3rxHHrONoNCS-EPgwlbi_S9gy8ujVx0tdDOBys0yyLUZFJljXURLo5oc/s900/pentekon1.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="341" data-original-width="900" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgj8wLUyvrWXqiEZ3AkVEivXfOdRKhA2Lfn9hDgPdvnj36LWTR7ZcUHsr4_zo_FjIaBE2V2-xcZveWyQk9frwMa3rxHHrONoNCS-EPgwlbi_S9gy8ujVx0tdDOBys0yyLUZFJljXURLo5oc/s320/pentekon1.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">6th Century BC Athenian vase</td></tr></tbody></table><p>Pentekonters did not necessarily have rams. They probably had a fore-foot because this was the standard hull form for the Greek Archaic and Classical eras. The first ram-armed war-galley battle, fought in the Sardinian Sea between Phokaians and the combined forces of Carthaginians and Tyrrhenians, took place c.540BC. The pentekonter was the first true war-galley.</p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgLqfP88OwQy4GDUmNF87kxyksVn_JELgLL41SfB1aJeULVbqHeoau1w8hj_3ivWAs4idfbrC2o_3dgI9VNgRg6WgdyTbvbft8y6JKDuXeir-xiX5r3MyUE06_7pHvhWhhnds3Eu9qnku3S/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="494" data-original-width="920" height="172" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgLqfP88OwQy4GDUmNF87kxyksVn_JELgLL41SfB1aJeULVbqHeoau1w8hj_3ivWAs4idfbrC2o_3dgI9VNgRg6WgdyTbvbft8y6JKDuXeir-xiX5r3MyUE06_7pHvhWhhnds3Eu9qnku3S/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Reconstruction of early pentekonter : Late Minoan date</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p></p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPA1SuP6U2vkjF0-7vbnkIX_rt4B1nOv46ZtD1FeMxJRiB2U7SEG-swZDdM76o6rOF9Q9uzUthuGpzA4VAUfQjZuvQe6Jt6NwAd882KnMjF-oeTYTh1h_5nCjhaqKT6_F7bs7jLa1OdpiL/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="819" data-original-width="1024" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPA1SuP6U2vkjF0-7vbnkIX_rt4B1nOv46ZtD1FeMxJRiB2U7SEG-swZDdM76o6rOF9Q9uzUthuGpzA4VAUfQjZuvQe6Jt6NwAd882KnMjF-oeTYTh1h_5nCjhaqKT6_F7bs7jLa1OdpiL/" width="300" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Greek Ship models .com version of a pentekonter</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><br /><p></p><p>I based my model on a ship with a partial deck /catwalk to allow an element of deck fighters to be perched on the model if desired. It is ram-armed but I could trim the forefoot and paint it as wood if I just want a transport or courier ship.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjMjch8mS6PQRQfuYwxNli_G9TZdJ21BjfTqcEb1jiOWKaVMqMr31ZarIvA2R6eduHGMrevVBEBICLG7NAQGsfCTUcrHyQIzg3-sX7MTgfHUJ-OCMaQWyOl9nR4SdxGlc0UNSgZgXVCVh8/s2425/zzpent3.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="954" data-original-width="2425" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjMjch8mS6PQRQfuYwxNli_G9TZdJ21BjfTqcEb1jiOWKaVMqMr31ZarIvA2R6eduHGMrevVBEBICLG7NAQGsfCTUcrHyQIzg3-sX7MTgfHUJ-OCMaQWyOl9nR4SdxGlc0UNSgZgXVCVh8/s320/zzpent3.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>The oarsmen are modelled, as usual, with individual features taken from surviving statues and vase paintings.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgs8v94NAvVbj40HY5pQ9KpTihoGtb1XDTHB8xZQFTHLx1HWZhCtGdlIeg7HRujhoKl4WuESp4kFiF6M5JqqyL4L4yoP7ChMJWvdr1mkB3IL3cOPniDMOIByMcLFIj4OFNI2lYS6vIK9QNk/s1824/zzpent5.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1642" data-original-width="1824" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgs8v94NAvVbj40HY5pQ9KpTihoGtb1XDTHB8xZQFTHLx1HWZhCtGdlIeg7HRujhoKl4WuESp4kFiF6M5JqqyL4L4yoP7ChMJWvdr1mkB3IL3cOPniDMOIByMcLFIj4OFNI2lYS6vIK9QNk/s320/zzpent5.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>The key characteristic of this model is that it has a single tier of oarsmen. This is a monokrotic oar system. Later developments led to a two-tier pentekonter with a dikrotic oar system. This is the next model down the slipway!</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhyphaLtr_9qjge-_rMT4ijL19e9n30RCHcLn2JCOJ8UNzmtfFJOrtV2_U49rv5uJptmNwVZQ2TlmLEXxRsisshJ4h1aMFxP9Rh-2F5Flv_Y3gpVww7Ak4yBLl-nGpt7pHca7hFXDjTBUw8/s1796/zzpent2.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1507" data-original-width="1796" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhyphaLtr_9qjge-_rMT4ijL19e9n30RCHcLn2JCOJ8UNzmtfFJOrtV2_U49rv5uJptmNwVZQ2TlmLEXxRsisshJ4h1aMFxP9Rh-2F5Flv_Y3gpVww7Ak4yBLl-nGpt7pHca7hFXDjTBUw8/s320/zzpent2.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>As far as we know, no monokrotic pentekonters were ever built as cataphracts, with a full deck and enclosed oarsmen. Although Demetrius son of Antigonos may have used these ships as the basis for his 'gunboats' at the siege of Rhodes.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg6cO5dMqQmdAgqqO11Best4Xk8_txic_ZX4pOKkXCF1ctalxa5x2mKtdqhrR1ieblYuvWa6WJoj56nClW3ZfTas1iLK8AqSxFurcS5PgIf4EXVOg2mHmSI-RVBTU5zQS-YAmvv0HFONtnP/s2436/zzpent4.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1044" data-original-width="2436" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg6cO5dMqQmdAgqqO11Best4Xk8_txic_ZX4pOKkXCF1ctalxa5x2mKtdqhrR1ieblYuvWa6WJoj56nClW3ZfTas1iLK8AqSxFurcS5PgIf4EXVOg2mHmSI-RVBTU5zQS-YAmvv0HFONtnP/s320/zzpent4.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Size comparison with a trieres at rear.</td></tr></tbody></table><p>Now enjoy the sight of a flotilla of monokrotic pentekonters taking it easy during peacetime manoeuvres 'somewhere in the Aegean'.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwHgGA8vUzYKKhMPRlEMaMVAZZ1TMQmoFDKLNOckPUxyTuOkwO9i8R8BisFkw8MwPxLwpBeL7tuBQhHcub2seGD8T7odEJmh0hH_F0e2LWXa4_sruKRcMmS_5A-SLiS8W8bEl7KQdkCZsA/s1812/zzpent1.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1782" data-original-width="1812" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwHgGA8vUzYKKhMPRlEMaMVAZZ1TMQmoFDKLNOckPUxyTuOkwO9i8R8BisFkw8MwPxLwpBeL7tuBQhHcub2seGD8T7odEJmh0hH_F0e2LWXa4_sruKRcMmS_5A-SLiS8W8bEl7KQdkCZsA/s320/zzpent1.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><p><br /></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-66058139752368433712021-07-11T22:10:00.002+02:002021-07-11T22:10:52.326+02:00SALAMIS REFIGHTS #2 : WHAT HAPPENED AT THE BATTLE?<p>Previously I discussed how the different ways one could fit the Persians and Greeks into the Salamis straits meant we could find no single solution as to what happened that day so long ago.</p><p>There is no one logical way to fit the opposing forces into the space available. Our ideas about what actually happened must be based on the accounts we have from antiquity - if we can read a sensible account from them - but we cannot expect a military operational plan with maps attached to emerge.</p><p>We have Herodotus : he wrote not long after the battle - in the second half of the 5th century BC. He travelled widely and may have spoken to veterans of the conflict. His account of the battle is lodged in an account of the war which is very detailed. </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimTt0qC95DdI-S_2KPiUc7qnjdt5_SpOyG4XNxnL8MLsdjUUFmC_UbaeDJ34rHE38qpCczWiTONYzknwggDXBQO1ncmd_lNXugGsWcWoUzrcjDB5sYEkiVk2LVBTQSvHqvAmy6IQgfwmLJ/s1187/HEROD1.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1187" data-original-width="774" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimTt0qC95DdI-S_2KPiUc7qnjdt5_SpOyG4XNxnL8MLsdjUUFmC_UbaeDJ34rHE38qpCczWiTONYzknwggDXBQO1ncmd_lNXugGsWcWoUzrcjDB5sYEkiVk2LVBTQSvHqvAmy6IQgfwmLJ/s320/HEROD1.jpg" /></a></div><p>Then we have the playwrite Aeschylus. He participated in the battle as a hoplite - he was no spring chicken by this date, being born c.525BC he was 45. He was therefore not an epibates if he was on a ship but rather a supplementary deck soldier. His play 'The Persians' is about the effects of the defeat on the Persians at home. How they suffer for their Great King's arrogance before the gods. The problem is this is not a war correspondent's despatch but a drama. It includes some interesting details but has no objective narrative of the battle.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfOZsjqYWhUVmCWqX9WXkcGCp8EbEu0snN-mgbqM3gJLgN6OQy1RS6dfiInOrIGCJz-vdWg37veYu7sSV8gdVjioMOSGMqVqT_8vgSD-mSC0JzLzPWZxInDxZe7VutKBaxvcRkWsWsPoP7/s705/aeschylus.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="705" data-original-width="585" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhfOZsjqYWhUVmCWqX9WXkcGCp8EbEu0snN-mgbqM3gJLgN6OQy1RS6dfiInOrIGCJz-vdWg37veYu7sSV8gdVjioMOSGMqVqT_8vgSD-mSC0JzLzPWZxInDxZe7VutKBaxvcRkWsWsPoP7/s320/aeschylus.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Why I always wear a hat in tortoise country, Aeschylus' big mistake.</td></tr></tbody></table><p>Diodorus Siculus was a Sicilian writing in the first century BC. He used older writings to construct his monumental 'Library of History'. His account of Salamis includes some details and judgements not apparent from Herodotus nor in Aeschylus. There were at least 9 ancient authors in the fifth century BC alone who addressed the battle apart from Herodotus and Aeschylus, so there was some material to work with.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkqEs_oHk__Owi7MeWhkP2Uph456KgHoewKZdYEVwjFjqV88sWTigysrglEpYHNvAnY8Uflx_8ctjVlxR_V3eL7Jl9M6QS06r7dS2YUKRyl5CmjLcMS3qYMFzXb9splhc0RZD8bDAjmQbV/s700/libwordlhistdiod.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="561" data-original-width="700" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkqEs_oHk__Owi7MeWhkP2Uph456KgHoewKZdYEVwjFjqV88sWTigysrglEpYHNvAnY8Uflx_8ctjVlxR_V3eL7Jl9M6QS06r7dS2YUKRyl5CmjLcMS3qYMFzXb9splhc0RZD8bDAjmQbV/s320/libwordlhistdiod.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">BIG history - DS' Library of History'</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>Later historians such as Ctesias, Plutarch, Aristodemus (and others) give us snippets. But no complete narratives and probably base themselves ultimately on the fifth century writers.</p><p>Then we have fragments from lost works of poetry and prose such as the poets Simonides and Timotheus. These are near contemporary but inconclusive.</p><p>From the previous discussion the big choice was should the battle-lines be drawn-up facing each other east-west or north-south.</p><p>As long ago as 1928 Kiel summarised 6 different approaches to reconstructing the battle. He further grouped them into two main tactical options - the' encirclement battle' or the 'frontal attack battle'. </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjpAqHJVs6U1gkT8LOa7CpYeW2JtBFsIEDwIF3M8SiYc9B9TJSSLz0BEDkoSD8jcPgtJfSZFS7zHeInQKISA_5DhZqKcm5LKGOctPaffe8oRrArzP-FCtXEFhEFABK9HXIpsm1LFH-VJmuu/s2048/sixmapsdates.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1217" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjpAqHJVs6U1gkT8LOa7CpYeW2JtBFsIEDwIF3M8SiYc9B9TJSSLz0BEDkoSD8jcPgtJfSZFS7zHeInQKISA_5DhZqKcm5LKGOctPaffe8oRrArzP-FCtXEFhEFABK9HXIpsm1LFH-VJmuu/s320/sixmapsdates.png" width="320" /></a></div><p>We have no new information about the battle barring the Troezen stele which is probably a later document.(I won't say 'fake' because it is 2400 years old item, and composed in a plausible way, not intending to cheat its audience). The reconstructions made over 100 years ago do not differ much from the most recent ones.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidv8ENR0NjCjWauClP2wx0NqUC-V7R_RDZzE4KnOrK0dT_ZQ4-sWQh56d6QW6xolpeNSHOrNwzk4jiq6d9rEnpmOYWjnmowRRXfWi6d99A27ELjXCfeaPnHQocXKIJWmvW6jcCquzso2O6/s1744/100years.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="667" data-original-width="1744" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidv8ENR0NjCjWauClP2wx0NqUC-V7R_RDZzE4KnOrK0dT_ZQ4-sWQh56d6QW6xolpeNSHOrNwzk4jiq6d9rEnpmOYWjnmowRRXfWi6d99A27ELjXCfeaPnHQocXKIJWmvW6jcCquzso2O6/s320/100years.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Plus ca change..</td></tr></tbody></table><p>Modern accounts range from short commentary papers dealing with a single issue such as the identification of where Xerxes plonked his throne down to entire books but the basics remain.</p><p>This is the refighter's problem. As I tried to show in the previous piece, looking for 'the solution' is where madness lies. There are far more tubes in the jungle than one can possibly squeeze. </p><p>Just to take three examples of how trying to create the perfect over-arching scenario which explains all the details we have from drama, history and poetry etc.. authors begin to lose all reason. </p><p>BARRY STRAUSS - Wot I did on my holidays at Salamis</p><p>Within the same paragraph..p.252</p><p>'Many Persian commanders were killed at the battle...they had little loyalty to a cause;...They had no incentive to fight to the death.'</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgpVh0kAFn7ATCtk_h1D8tlAV9pKlvReAqTI69Rw4Da6nBFtzekRKtkD0BgUZnwDa0ZgnuIP8QMP14nXM9N9qQAAbctQXeSXWE861ihk0IyE06DBePB0fUyDQ3lg42C8kjzE8h4LQ1FNiYU/s515/seafightdie.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="285" data-original-width="515" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgpVh0kAFn7ATCtk_h1D8tlAV9pKlvReAqTI69Rw4Da6nBFtzekRKtkD0BgUZnwDa0ZgnuIP8QMP14nXM9N9qQAAbctQXeSXWE861ihk0IyE06DBePB0fUyDQ3lg42C8kjzE8h4LQ1FNiYU/s320/seafightdie.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">AINT GONNA DIE FOR NOOO-ONE..</td></tr></tbody></table><p>HANS WALLINGA - Xerxes Great Adventure</p><p>p.93 -dealing with his speculation that the Persian planned a simultaneous landing attack from Psyttaleia to the south side of Cynosura..</p><p>'That nothing came of the actions projected in the plan must not lead us to neglect the indications preserved by the Greek witnesses. They strongly suggest, if they do not prove, that the Persian staff were not tied to a simple naval handbook scheme.'</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjjbRNP7FcR2QhNL8RloAWAuoD01kQoNgKyDRrg6gjk0-TT_3lgwIIqILwWZsWfsQ1aHRLUCARgw3rBIS7VU9yZmiSxJni3tXn4iMOuynNAfcwFCDAwh0XB0xWClbvNz4yzpFo8GEnif58u/" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="" data-original-height="296" data-original-width="474" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjjbRNP7FcR2QhNL8RloAWAuoD01kQoNgKyDRrg6gjk0-TT_3lgwIIqILwWZsWfsQ1aHRLUCARgw3rBIS7VU9yZmiSxJni3tXn4iMOuynNAfcwFCDAwh0XB0xWClbvNz4yzpFo8GEnif58u/" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>i.e. just because my convoluted scheme is not directly mentioned by the ancients doesnt mean it wasn't done or wasn't at least possible. Probably. </p><p>NEIL HAMMOND - All About Salamis</p><p>p.47 - trying to cajole the battle lines to lie where he wants them.</p><p>'The fleet(Persian) therefore advanced en echelon..Deceived by the disappearance of the Greek fleet ...the Phoenician squadron was still pressing on towards the narrow when the Greek fleet emerged in column and swung into line to face the en echelon formation of the Persian line.'</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg67kcAiTslneVlji00BC_QIjlnfsRsi5DIT52cuGdpagDnZk3y5SgBRiymLRN_oyB1sdJgv-xI3e-I9_r9Z0DLEwf0YZ7wipHaSu8HGsWvcPLt_ATeUD5puOoJq66g8w7DIN-IpPeLISel/" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="" data-original-height="250" data-original-width="379" height="211" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg67kcAiTslneVlji00BC_QIjlnfsRsi5DIT52cuGdpagDnZk3y5SgBRiymLRN_oyB1sdJgv-xI3e-I9_r9Z0DLEwf0YZ7wipHaSu8HGsWvcPLt_ATeUD5puOoJq66g8w7DIN-IpPeLISel/" width="320" /></a></div><br /><br /><div>WILLIAM SHEPHERD - Everything About Salamis within Osprey Format<p></p><p>Somehow, he has the Greeks emerge from Ambelaki and Paloukia bays to form a continuous line from Pharmakoussa to the tip of Cynosura with some forces kept in reserve. (how would this be coordinated?) This is done in the dark/twilight with no direct observation of where the Persian ships are. For an army or fleet to be drawn up based on a hunch in ancient warfare is unusual.</p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjfSKc9YIRSwxQgMzQEuyVuW21WitmKMROQtIhvqDW35Vh_cf4ixHtDEqZfib1vlHbjXPnjDAOnoNTM7IbEjSPJeuFLJgVD2IsZY9eRQuxfva92_9aqHJ9YWkPGZEOabtBrr8QNCKvuy6IX/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="495" data-original-width="700" height="226" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjfSKc9YIRSwxQgMzQEuyVuW21WitmKMROQtIhvqDW35Vh_cf4ixHtDEqZfib1vlHbjXPnjDAOnoNTM7IbEjSPJeuFLJgVD2IsZY9eRQuxfva92_9aqHJ9YWkPGZEOabtBrr8QNCKvuy6IX/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">TRAFFIC CONTROL..WE NEED TRAFFIC CONTROL.</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>What seems to happen is that a detailed overview which hangs perfectly together of this battle is a problem of Schleswig-Holsteinian proportions. If it does not kill you it will send you mad so best forget about it!</p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiZkM7VoI-F-OTM4a4CYW-tnDRkADMDlJx3F9upVDBDXsLVKX6Ic5avrdxpcZC_Vvz459ZaDnv1J9xzagjyvkqvd1p92EjB6-fHgHcVzOsgkvEq1qWEBtWz4TXMxeUhlvXOb183QXgNDAiW/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="478" data-original-width="612" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiZkM7VoI-F-OTM4a4CYW-tnDRkADMDlJx3F9upVDBDXsLVKX6Ic5avrdxpcZC_Vvz459ZaDnv1J9xzagjyvkqvd1p92EjB6-fHgHcVzOsgkvEq1qWEBtWz4TXMxeUhlvXOb183QXgNDAiW/" width="307" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">WTF are we arguing about?</td></tr></tbody></table><br />All authors who tackle the battle with a total recall style approach become tough to read. Barry Strauss's book is sometimes like fighting through jungle thorns and creepers. A glimpse of the ancient sources, followed by the digression on a subject bearing some relation is repeated again and again. You start to shout at the book 'Get on with it!' Academic papers are meant to deal with arcane matters but still if you read several which fail to agree, almost with a will, the process becomes wearing. Hans Wallinga uses an entire book about Salamis to ride his hobby horse that triereis usually operated without a full compliment and often with a whole tier of oars missing.<p></p><p>In the end I decided to marry two perspectives in an attempt to gain control of the Salamis spaghetti monster. One has to step back and stop letting any discussion of details hinder the project.</p><p>First : recognise that a reconstruction of an ancient battle is impossible. I have fought in so many reenactment fights I cannot remember. The evening after any one of these events, people fighting next to each other will give a different account of what happened. This with 500 people fighting in groups of up to 50 each. This without the traumatic effects of a near-death experience. (Mostly).</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnifjiwTThTLvjXXFSbT9UTk4dQwXgYLdufCSNj9WJZPfRT5RnMMSsgq_TSkwUD0C5gB7EXGPU5yUVwL18rnMNieT6efPcilolkFDRKPn5RVOnsVhgxujR5kSVbUSDwZldbAjXXSE3qPVq/" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="" data-original-height="224" data-original-width="1100" height="100" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnifjiwTThTLvjXXFSbT9UTk4dQwXgYLdufCSNj9WJZPfRT5RnMMSsgq_TSkwUD0C5gB7EXGPU5yUVwL18rnMNieT6efPcilolkFDRKPn5RVOnsVhgxujR5kSVbUSDwZldbAjXXSE3qPVq/w492-h100/image.png" width="492" /></a></div><br />Commanders give different accounts from front-line fighters. Those who 'died' have a different view than those who survived. The left flank seldom knows what the right flank is doing, or has done. Herodotus collected accounts, no doubt, but then had the task of collating and reconciling them.<p></p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi10jefGfz13-IlNSteEVcRcnMEm0Tml8wgqiSnQCzl4neZAu-drxdDCEUgUImHFT885u6RyOgooHrvgIO2Yk8b-2rKLHPhC92UTloVMec-fSYhvHYnqFihJAPN4iBfUdnzIAWW1IC9HfQW/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="180" data-original-width="303" height="190" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi10jefGfz13-IlNSteEVcRcnMEm0Tml8wgqiSnQCzl4neZAu-drxdDCEUgUImHFT885u6RyOgooHrvgIO2Yk8b-2rKLHPhC92UTloVMec-fSYhvHYnqFihJAPN4iBfUdnzIAWW1IC9HfQW/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">I am in this fight. I remember almost no details.</td></tr></tbody></table><br /> An impossible task. The latter of which he does not really attempt. Aeschylus had his limited viewpoint of the battle which was highly authentic but the surviving form in which he set down an account of the battle is a politically-charged drama which hangs together as drama but cannot be considered a despatch from the front.<p></p><p>We must get over this desire to accommodate all surviving references and details. We must find the key details - a manageable number - and work with them. Details upon which the battle depends and upon which all commentators must have a view.And most importantly, details which can be modelled somehow in a tabletop recnstruction.</p><p>Second : Throw away the hackneyed method of marking out a scaled-down battlefield and deploying on this a force reduced in size by a factor suitable for your collection of models. </p><p>It is necessary to scale the forces and the topography in synch. A 1/4 sized battlefield needs forces which occupy 1/4 of the space of the original forces. A massed unit which had problems manoeuvering cannot be replicated by 2 or 3 models. Of course, it <i>can</i>, but not in a realistic way.</p><p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh28BsqccweHAKN1QWFjBrPaEuzbMi24JlZtnC5n_SQ6SpfpGZAbXmgUp401PjdMETH3i-gE1HbMPhHkGst3nVaND47vDn2yt20mjgCLCEPHB6S3SWf2iT9LW6HC45crDYKlH_CW6ORSn7U/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="1158" data-original-width="2716" height="136" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh28BsqccweHAKN1QWFjBrPaEuzbMi24JlZtnC5n_SQ6SpfpGZAbXmgUp401PjdMETH3i-gE1HbMPhHkGst3nVaND47vDn2yt20mjgCLCEPHB6S3SWf2iT9LW6HC45crDYKlH_CW6ORSn7U/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Actium on the table: this represents something like 650 ships using models on 40 bases.<br />Does this present the gamer with something of the problems of shepherding massed fleets? From the excellent blog <a href="https://ncc1717.com/2016/05/28/actium-31bc/" target="_blank">NCC1717.com</a></td></tr></tbody></table></p><p>The degree of scaling must be assessed if the 'refight' is to be meaningful. If a regiment which operated in two battalions is scaled down to a single unit of 10 figures then we have lost any flexibility in deploying that unit and we should proceed with the idea that all units should be represented as individual blocks rather than have any sub-units. </p><p>A key point at Salamis is the number of ships in a limited space. This problem must be presented as part of the game as much as whether Greek or Persian ships were better. Scaling which results in less of a space problem means a refight is diverging more from the original situation.</p><p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjXlVyTko1qEc33Y26cBneE0K4Euz_L0SMbOJ4MUIyKFtAQTBWNhYitwewOGsAgfvnjFLGVMebhP8GLQ6y2zwN0xAUu_P1nOMuNvZ7g1tIWvqzNtKb9BdU1-hy3e98FjzGAQx6DvAvwsbU/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="480" data-original-width="640" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgjXlVyTko1qEc33Y26cBneE0K4Euz_L0SMbOJ4MUIyKFtAQTBWNhYitwewOGsAgfvnjFLGVMebhP8GLQ6y2zwN0xAUu_P1nOMuNvZ7g1tIWvqzNtKb9BdU1-hy3e98FjzGAQx6DvAvwsbU/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Salamis suitable congested but somewaht undermanned. <br />From excellent report at Bleaseworld blog <a href="https://bleaseworld.blogspot.com/2020/12/ad-mare-bellum-slaughter-at-salamis.html" target="_blank">HERE</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br />Finally, to make such a project interesting and involving there has to be choice and chance involved for the commanders on each side. If the game evolves as a slide -show of original events it will be boring.</p><p>For the Battle of Little Big Horn a refight should allow the US Cavalry to bump into Indian forces at different times and locations than the original events show. The forces available to the sides might be varied with reference to changing a few factors in the background story. This is a refight game rather than a rerun.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidSng-KeG-tvPM4GLoYHmtdLAGIL3pJOVNzGafDLsh9AApMY1u4Qmxw3HOh-Ux-Fjjry6GO_2d38dbFhT7S9u-FPsYyU7i6S22RrD7pb_1sbKJkvyc759pKDRuhcEejEkcEVqADVqnqgVC/s711/renochoise.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="290" data-original-width="711" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidSng-KeG-tvPM4GLoYHmtdLAGIL3pJOVNzGafDLsh9AApMY1u4Qmxw3HOh-Ux-Fjjry6GO_2d38dbFhT7S9u-FPsYyU7i6S22RrD7pb_1sbKJkvyc759pKDRuhcEejEkcEVqADVqnqgVC/s320/renochoise.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">See article on game theory at Little Bighorn <a href="https://www.coopertoons.com/education/gametheory_littlebighorn/littlebighorn_gametheory.html" target="_blank">HERE</a></td></tr></tbody></table><p>Now all we have to do is examine what this means for Salamis.</p><p>NEXT PART : Salamis : Fighting Fantasy Adventure? (when the rabbiting should begin to make sense at last..)</p></div>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-55890383924425983062021-06-29T21:37:00.003+02:002021-07-09T18:58:58.581+02:00SALAMIS : CRITICAL FACTORS IN A REFIGHT : #1 SPACE<p> A refight of Salamis has to represent the main limitations both sides had to operate within.</p><p>Both sides had to marshal a large number of ships. These were the largest fleets we have record of from the age of the war-gally. The Greeks had 300 to 380 or so vessels and the Persians deployed around a thousand. </p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhY5VcGft4O85AomcnYES9qipOJou17lS5MNCbf2pcIaLASQLMU43t0f-dIiHSGCVju2nuiWeFAnja-lMGlgPaBpZpTlUe_BWmRGZJsDAiWwvyhh5aMJQ0ksbd9DUab_X8N6IltbHgVKkC6/s436/lotsaships.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="270" data-original-width="436" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhY5VcGft4O85AomcnYES9qipOJou17lS5MNCbf2pcIaLASQLMU43t0f-dIiHSGCVju2nuiWeFAnja-lMGlgPaBpZpTlUe_BWmRGZJsDAiWwvyhh5aMJQ0ksbd9DUab_X8N6IltbHgVKkC6/s320/lotsaships.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Oh my god! It's full of ships!</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>If we take a trieres to be 40metres long and 15 metres wide - including oars - plenty of wriggle-room there - we can work out how much space the commanders need to deploy their forces.</p><p>If more than one rank in a line is envisaged we need a good length between them - another 40 metres shared front and back.</p><p>Neither can ships be set tightly side-by-side. Manoeuvre space requires at lest a ship length between files - again sharing this out adds 20metres either side of the vessel.</p><p>This 55metres wide by 80 metres long template is required if ships are to act in a mobile fashion.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8AGPPZY-Q_djSSmWjw3z6n6893h46Nani0Xyq6rM6QIhxkH7YrJ2eDcRUZWgKIVlo6fpm55NH-cgY7sVhD-D6u9FKihT2jMyzMF0mQ2Db2N7V8X1bJuNvE70b5f0DGUX9y-Sq6jXkMR5x/s2048/trieresseaspacelooseform.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1043" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8AGPPZY-Q_djSSmWjw3z6n6893h46Nani0Xyq6rM6QIhxkH7YrJ2eDcRUZWgKIVlo6fpm55NH-cgY7sVhD-D6u9FKihT2jMyzMF0mQ2Db2N7V8X1bJuNvE70b5f0DGUX9y-Sq6jXkMR5x/s320/trieresseaspacelooseform.png" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>Maybe we can halve the spacing for a static formation but with the recognition that such a tight spacing will easily be disturbed and lead to ships fouling each other. In addition, no ship can interpenetrate such a tight press of ships - so no vessel can retire or move out from the ranks in such a situation without casusing chaos.</p><p>This close-formation template would be 35 metres wide by 60 metres long.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgZrfSCvs37seKEXvMD0USAETVA6X6BHoxH7sCYhyONVAp-yXihejUd1xt3SKve-sfRJPSQh758Yavn3ur5Ea9Zfpn0_jlIqXWrNT_MldLJOf04IqaSGyKRgzlAvh3tnlJUf6v2ZCTw2FUs/s2048/trieresseaspaceCLOSE.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1043" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgZrfSCvs37seKEXvMD0USAETVA6X6BHoxH7sCYhyONVAp-yXihejUd1xt3SKve-sfRJPSQh758Yavn3ur5Ea9Zfpn0_jlIqXWrNT_MldLJOf04IqaSGyKRgzlAvh3tnlJUf6v2ZCTw2FUs/s320/trieresseaspaceCLOSE.png" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>Now we know the kind of space required for the ships, using these templates which are as small as possible - let us see how much space was available.</p><p>The Salamis straits were chosen by Themistocles precisely because space was restricted. The Greeks had fought the Persians three times near Artemisium in waters which were more open. Even though the Greeks had avoided being overwhelmed by the more numerous enemy it had been touch-and-go. In any case the Greeks had found out how the Persians conducted themselves in naval fighting which had been the second aim of the expedition alongside preventing the outflanking of the Thermopylae position.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3iY1g79JIPPIF3G-zkPStcMVhZqiX7WXEwrv_gkiKOFweq2cvHTjAlAiC_mnDouJUK4_Zb58GMB8HVgsHc1Gr3BWiMIGYJi6iKAg3TLus8b6xjkYxzukFHv8cb3NM7kkzta7VLM4yutXQ/s827/ARTEMLOCN.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="614" data-original-width="827" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3iY1g79JIPPIF3G-zkPStcMVhZqiX7WXEwrv_gkiKOFweq2cvHTjAlAiC_mnDouJUK4_Zb58GMB8HVgsHc1Gr3BWiMIGYJi6iKAg3TLus8b6xjkYxzukFHv8cb3NM7kkzta7VLM4yutXQ/s320/ARTEMLOCN.png" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>The width of the straits at Salamis is 1200 to 1600 metres. </p><p>Side-by-side this is 22 ships with files running east west. - nose-to-tail 15 ships will span the straits north-south. In a loose formation with manoeuvre space for each ship.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0_wbFrAk4BmVpAnGXcxCQ5eHtHk3FrhfJ-O4zRlis5iapurd7Y8w-qLWJLCJCWZkjTDiwDiCDKYN_1Kfw5qKfJ1GrwY4XVQCAEdcptfKK-1UYUWqiZ-rd2H1O-57fd1GTvC1-9HsInA6U/s2048/wallingasal.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1423" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0_wbFrAk4BmVpAnGXcxCQ5eHtHk3FrhfJ-O4zRlis5iapurd7Y8w-qLWJLCJCWZkjTDiwDiCDKYN_1Kfw5qKfJ1GrwY4XVQCAEdcptfKK-1UYUWqiZ-rd2H1O-57fd1GTvC1-9HsInA6U/s320/wallingasal.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"></td></tr></tbody></table><p>In tight formation we could have 34 ships side-by side in easte-west files or nose-to-tail 20 in north-south files.</p><p>There is not a lot of space in here !</p><p>Here we immdiately come up against the big question for any Salamis refight. Did the fleets line-up north-south or east-west? Many aspects of the battle change depending on the orientation of the battle lines.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUu12XThW3Wo42pJP05O35vsVFulJeAX7rXbBkFtSzjPU9dxv4LwpnfLd9FINL88Osa0bn1wiqTtCtNyBO4V0Bo1V6rZ25s71kY6j0CFmrSVQS_NjdVgme8dDSveODey5TR0XvA1Jb0jSN/s1111/rogerssal.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="909" data-original-width="1111" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUu12XThW3Wo42pJP05O35vsVFulJeAX7rXbBkFtSzjPU9dxv4LwpnfLd9FINL88Osa0bn1wiqTtCtNyBO4V0Bo1V6rZ25s71kY6j0CFmrSVQS_NjdVgme8dDSveODey5TR0XvA1Jb0jSN/s320/rogerssal.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Vice-Admiral Rogers : an older East-Wester</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgCxrGDO7FCoThygPchKAFg_yERY4DELeP-IAkjQec1VEh0XDGkKrm_tHBOeH-qEQEgn4LxtVv-eHQVVmbelkvTmB1yt2BQh_vXnxIIgmRIzBk4eNqOSmZYtZqzGoEaBrXQtA6Eq1g3dfE-/s1106/connollysal.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="920" data-original-width="1106" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgCxrGDO7FCoThygPchKAFg_yERY4DELeP-IAkjQec1VEh0XDGkKrm_tHBOeH-qEQEgn4LxtVv-eHQVVmbelkvTmB1yt2BQh_vXnxIIgmRIzBk4eNqOSmZYtZqzGoEaBrXQtA6Eq1g3dfE-/s320/connollysal.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Peter Connolly : Newer East-Wester</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><br /><br /><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWLs3naHvM1YKaf3DyWL5XIWv8gV65W0hc5R6AbrX7Aucuz6RHBDZLULtvPGoCauqvApnzjztJY4qd9HyZnO6vFM9pCdtPCvg13Ik5oi-yvaXgUzXndgrVY8Rd_7xNiP0IJsWUFv3xwEjW/s696/morrissonsal.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="446" data-original-width="696" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWLs3naHvM1YKaf3DyWL5XIWv8gV65W0hc5R6AbrX7Aucuz6RHBDZLULtvPGoCauqvApnzjztJY4qd9HyZnO6vFM9pCdtPCvg13Ik5oi-yvaXgUzXndgrVY8Rd_7xNiP0IJsWUFv3xwEjW/s320/morrissonsal.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Morrison : A classic East-Wester</td></tr></tbody></table><br />If the fighting was east-west we have two deep formations butting heads in the strait. In fact, the Persian fleet would seem unbeatable in such a mass.<p></p><p>To fit past Cynosura each squadron of Persians - 200 to 250 ships strong each - would be 5 ranks deep if packed tight. or 7 if more loosley arranged. In all, the Persians massed fleet of 600 presents a 15+ deep phalanx plugging the straits.</p><p>The Greeks can counter this with about 7 ranks.</p><p>Neither formation is a good one for a war-galley battle. No manoeuvre is possible. However, this is what Herodotos describes at least initially, a slugfest.</p><p><i style="font-family: Georgia, Times, serif;">But the majority of the ships at Salamis were sunk, some destroyed by the Athenians, some by the Aeginetans. Since the Hellenes fought in an orderly fashion by line, but the barbarians were no longer in position and did nothing with forethought, it was likely to turn out as it did. Yet they were brave that day, much more brave than they had been at Euboea, for they all showed zeal out of fear of Xerxes, each one thinking that the king was watching him.</i></p><p><span style="font-family: Georgia, Times, serif;"><i>Herodotus VIII.86.1</i></span></p><p>The most recent reconstructions have favoured the alternative. By shifting to a north-south line-up there is more space to arrange the many ships. </p><p>(See Wallinga's figure above also)</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzs-qzYACa3cYBAqDXxGwDDqTaEa1LHCH_Dh_mp1CDoyM6q0PLmVQQHVmmfagexiwrHBE8_IvhIzo4EQem3WgPNBwlSrweLjeGI_3hAXBwU2UPo1EEm1jMsX-jBgJHZm_rtLG9jin28p7-/s1016/maritmehistpod.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="626" data-original-width="1016" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzs-qzYACa3cYBAqDXxGwDDqTaEa1LHCH_Dh_mp1CDoyM6q0PLmVQQHVmmfagexiwrHBE8_IvhIzo4EQem3WgPNBwlSrweLjeGI_3hAXBwU2UPo1EEm1jMsX-jBgJHZm_rtLG9jin28p7-/s320/maritmehistpod.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">MaritimeHistoryPodcast</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgu6ucKdrEF1fCYEJBwl9ggQeBzW3tXQW3-R8DX6SPqMbuVExJx8nHYAhaN7ASkqHCrDc7truMp0Z778TZaMG_sy8wE0dG2vJYpZujEXaYyqjMRDbQii-NZ1kwJ0AAKzvMfrcQ4i-erO6LH/s1798/ospreysallineup.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1237" data-original-width="1798" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgu6ucKdrEF1fCYEJBwl9ggQeBzW3tXQW3-R8DX6SPqMbuVExJx8nHYAhaN7ASkqHCrDc7truMp0Z778TZaMG_sy8wE0dG2vJYpZujEXaYyqjMRDbQii-NZ1kwJ0AAKzvMfrcQ4i-erO6LH/s320/ospreysallineup.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Osprey - Everything in one (why the wierd hook on the Persian right? - see below)</td></tr></tbody></table><br /></div><br /><div>From the mouth of the strait to the islands off Amphiale is 3000metres - much more space for a battle-line. 55 ships side-by-side in loose order or 85 in close formation.</div><div><br /></div><div>This makes the Greeks from 4 to 7 ranks. A single squadron of 200 Persians would be strung out to 3 to 4 ranks. Three squadrons would plug the straits with 9 ranks or so.</div><div><br /></div><div>On this orientation the Greeks can be line-up with their backs to Salamis island, the Persians to the mainland, each with their respective cheerleaders raising a din behind to egg them on. </div><p><br /></p><p>Indeed, this east-west trend has extended - literally - to Barry Strauss and Antonis Mystrionis contention that the Persians reached all the way beyond the Pharmakoussia islands and some of the fighting took place there. </p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnA8fAOvDbPJQmG2nSnXGbnSr_tCFWb-eD7F5BOsW1MVJaOPIUiB7J0sya2x8JdOnQGZUVoBLAMy-zjfuUt4rCKc7xCxici8lhy6UAYkUJfEUVBVBmkBbRL_d-t1M13tf2O2c2u0nRM3r4/s2048/ancwarsal.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1222" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnA8fAOvDbPJQmG2nSnXGbnSr_tCFWb-eD7F5BOsW1MVJaOPIUiB7J0sya2x8JdOnQGZUVoBLAMy-zjfuUt4rCKc7xCxici8lhy6UAYkUJfEUVBVBmkBbRL_d-t1M13tf2O2c2u0nRM3r4/s320/ancwarsal.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Wierdest of the wierd ; Jestice in 'Battles of the Ancient World'</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjOOeN_JVsRy2qvfv_ujU3O6UaaNz_ZV4FiGeZC3hEkygjBjyeUPK8gRnltvNgA-120JLPAwMrwJ3gI8rKDR4oI5EXu6ofElntbBIzYbJGnRNl8Cc28Qea_f8yqWRGm0F0LwLpnilElSQAs/s1248/GREKEXTENDEWLINES.png" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="983" data-original-width="1248" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjOOeN_JVsRy2qvfv_ujU3O6UaaNz_ZV4FiGeZC3hEkygjBjyeUPK8gRnltvNgA-120JLPAwMrwJ3gI8rKDR4oI5EXu6ofElntbBIzYbJGnRNl8Cc28Qea_f8yqWRGm0F0LwLpnilElSQAs/s320/GREKEXTENDEWLINES.png" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Mystrionis : Everything and the kitchen sink : Greeks Everywhere Persians Everywhere</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>This choice is a fundamental factor in any refight. How and WHEN do the Persians get the head of their column, the right of their line, far into the straits? And how far?</p><p>Presumably the Persian right wing, the Phoenicians, followed the mainland shore during the latter part of the night. Keeping as far away as possible from Salamis and possible surprise by the Greeks. They could have chatted with men standing in the shallows bearing torches to guide them. There were also thousands of small boats with the fleet, after all. They were also, apparently, of the mind that the Greeks were about to decamp at dawn and they would just charge a retreating enemy. This relies on them taking Siccinus' fairy tale seriously but these were salty sea-dogs who had fought the Greeks twice already in hard-fought battle. Would they have dared to underestimate such a vicious foe? Also, consider how the story of fleeing Greeks was communicated from HQ, wherever Xerxes was, (not yet in his 'command post' on Mount Aegaleos-)to the 600 plus ships of the fleet within an evening? Hammond suggests Xerxes gives Siccinus his audience circa 6pm. Between then and sundown - 7.45pm - the fleet has to be given its orders and set off. 1000 ships! Maybe to the commanders? But to imagine that every Phoenician rower got a version of the tale and thought the Greeks had given up is a streeetch for me. </p><p>Space also is a factor in where the Greeks went at night. In most accounts based on the ancient sources the Greeks are all tucked up in bed building up energy for the long day rowing and fighting on the morrow. Meanwhile the Persians are rowing all night depleting their glucose stores and getting dehydrated.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg7KVb2kMtg2qLJrZR5Tqds67x0fAzRmYiKvNjFVSbEe8QnasKpR0OahiJtUctc_cus_hZeeXb-7xenMpej-MZiYASt6qWrCuztS1SJK9d9Z4DDGWqcqld5DWtW_zSGge5eMDuCpFaURRQe/s600/spockkirk.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="448" data-original-width="600" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg7KVb2kMtg2qLJrZR5Tqds67x0fAzRmYiKvNjFVSbEe8QnasKpR0OahiJtUctc_cus_hZeeXb-7xenMpej-MZiYASt6qWrCuztS1SJK9d9Z4DDGWqcqld5DWtW_zSGge5eMDuCpFaURRQe/s320/spockkirk.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Kirk - Spock. Did you know the ancient Greeks could bend space ? : Spock - Illogical - that is only in secondary sources .</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>Where were the Greeks ? Not onboard ship. They slept ashore usually. Bedspace for 90,000 men would make modern Salaminian B&B places swoon.</p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6HlYgxF6NnBP04W62Tgh8udnhov-j9x83HGau_djNm7UqiV1_OLVRTOMqEtUV3eu5YjmILd4oqBqbNBv8ufMw19kM8YW8r762o0I-qOPyNiDhpN1CGvl3feJ7BgiUTEBU5domCoGUzJhS/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="276" data-original-width="460" height="192" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6HlYgxF6NnBP04W62Tgh8udnhov-j9x83HGau_djNm7UqiV1_OLVRTOMqEtUV3eu5YjmILd4oqBqbNBv8ufMw19kM8YW8r762o0I-qOPyNiDhpN1CGvl3feJ7BgiUTEBU5domCoGUzJhS/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">γεμάτος. χωρίς δύσοσμο κωπηλάτες</td></tr></tbody></table><p></p><p>The ships must have been moored at suitable places. There are three bays on the straits. It used to be accepted that the Greek fleet was as far away from danger as possible at Paloukia. More recently the Greeks are all over the place. The problem I see with this is coordination. Getting them all out of bed onto the ships with a good breakfast inside them and lined up to face the enemy when they are in three or four different places is not an easy task. After all, Diodoros has Themistocles say precisely this before the battles at Artemisium </p><p><i style="color: #000066; font-family: "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, "Gentium Plus", serif; text-align: justify;">'Themistocles alone expressed the opposite opinion, showing them that it was to their advantage to sail against the enemy with the whole fleet in one array; for in this way, he declared, they would have the upper hand, attacking as they would with their ships in a single body (approach) an enemy whose formation was broken by disorder, as it must be, for they would be issuing out of many harbours at some distance apart.'</i></p><p><span style="color: #000066; font-family: "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, "Gentium Plus", serif; text-align: justify;"><i>Diodoros Siculus. Library of History, XI.12.5</i></span></p><p>Triereis could be moored several deep. If take a hull as 10 metres wide for mooring Eurybiades had to find 4000metres to moor his ships individually but only 1000metres if they were four deep.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwcmEG1Z3uIbdKJ_UwK0UWQKVm1jKMG3LeYpv2SYp1EHZpRx2rW-W1HLIRFpk0zdHNF4ImFsFyvsL3LhY44QPI-BiS_NSZwz_3BRQZ1RX_RKLfUCjfI2N6a5gsojGs5v7H7xtpgU87J3eC/s355/mooringdepths.png" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="355" data-original-width="314" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwcmEG1Z3uIbdKJ_UwK0UWQKVm1jKMG3LeYpv2SYp1EHZpRx2rW-W1HLIRFpk0zdHNF4ImFsFyvsL3LhY44QPI-BiS_NSZwz_3BRQZ1RX_RKLfUCjfI2N6a5gsojGs5v7H7xtpgU87J3eC/s320/mooringdepths.png" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Not a bar-room trick : several ranks of ships moored a la Med</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p> There is no need to use Ambelaki Bay - Or, one might get away with ONLY using Ampelaki Bay...</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjAuyLvaUU6zx3LA9FnCI9jdRmhMM_u1vxhfxde1C9MdytnQjT7YS46BYZtcmXSKKpNh5BelzCKlvRCBlxPZAOSnthQdkdQIp6Rtz3cJ0iCkleqzlOw26yvaJJVcEa-bzj4b2cD9iKJIs0W/s640/ancient+ampelakiaquay.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="479" data-original-width="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjAuyLvaUU6zx3LA9FnCI9jdRmhMM_u1vxhfxde1C9MdytnQjT7YS46BYZtcmXSKKpNh5BelzCKlvRCBlxPZAOSnthQdkdQIp6Rtz3cJ0iCkleqzlOw26yvaJJVcEa-bzj4b2cD9iKJIs0W/s320/ancient+ampelakiaquay.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"></td></tr></tbody></table><p><span style="color: #2d2d2d; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 16px;">"This evidence, supplemented by the information from ancient historical and literary sources, leaves no doubt about the role of the bay as the main assembly and launching point of the Greek fleet in close proximity to the theater of the sea battle in the straits,” Yannos Lolos, president of the Hellenic Institute of Marine Archaeology, which partnered with a variety of scholars and scientists from other universities and archaeological organizations for the study, tells Lorenzi.</span></p><p style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #2d2d2d; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 16px;">Smithsonian Magazine <a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/naval-base-used-legendary-battle-salamis-found-180962666/" target="_blank">HERE</a></span></p><p><span style="color: #2d2d2d; font-family: times; font-size: 16px;">368 ships in this narrow inlet is another streeetch - or squaaash. The main advantage would be to hide the fleet from the mainland - somewhat.</span></p><p><span style="color: #2d2d2d; font-family: times; font-size: 16px;">Bearing in mind it is not known where the most important ancient harbour was and the town of Salamis was inland. </span></p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjr8y_Oy_4ZsqiWokcAxAvI_yZt8A6hvSYNPthza7knUxnL4U5rt1FBiea3gqAVxkHU_PRU_51rLSUUqGPH_TbQfCq0NxJ30ZQG7lgw57omV0Dom_IyHdfyaHmRfaKLeSd77wrWBsx8PmMg/s767/modtourists.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="547" data-original-width="767" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjr8y_Oy_4ZsqiWokcAxAvI_yZt8A6hvSYNPthza7knUxnL4U5rt1FBiea3gqAVxkHU_PRU_51rLSUUqGPH_TbQfCq0NxJ30ZQG7lgw57omV0Dom_IyHdfyaHmRfaKLeSd77wrWBsx8PmMg/s320/modtourists.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Despite tourist office assurances, there <b>were</b> anchorages at Paloukia and the modern naval base area.</td></tr></tbody></table><p></p><p>BUT Ambelaki Bay has even become NECESSARY to the lateest reconstructions because the late arrival(?) in the day of the Aiginetians on the Persian left flank(?) can be supported as a sally from this bay. But what did these ships do all day before this point? When the Greeks were so outnumbered from the start? And why did the Persians not venture in there or block the narrow bay off?</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEioGPqn-EjmOTnE-HHL9MN4_v-gtc9e0HXfGvAHGBxwHBGqscZn8fG__JRcMYr3gD2ys3-_qj8EBUugySMasKikcjzhbvxdeZahJt0HzNs9DjPJXkjuAB-kKVnOyngP2oH5HEVFg1wSe-bi/s1553/ospreysal.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="843" data-original-width="1553" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEioGPqn-EjmOTnE-HHL9MN4_v-gtc9e0HXfGvAHGBxwHBGqscZn8fG__JRcMYr3gD2ys3-_qj8EBUugySMasKikcjzhbvxdeZahJt0HzNs9DjPJXkjuAB-kKVnOyngP2oH5HEVFg1wSe-bi/s320/ospreysal.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Shepherd's Osprey map shows late Aiginetian attack from Ambelaki Bay and lots of Persians still trying to enter the straits</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>If the Persians were on their oars all night what exactly were they doing? Space is required for them to weeble around in all night long. If the ships are dawdling around killing time before the dawn pounce to kill the Greeks, they were not at full steam, obviously. In fact the tiers of rowers could have spelled each other while the rest rested with their oars inboard. Not an ideal situation but men in military service usually know well how to take advantage of the least break in activity and get some shut-eye be they in a fox-hole or a four-poster. The sea was not rough or battle would not have occurred. </p><p>If the Persian ships kept a minimal headway this would amount to 2 knots, say - any less would allow a formation to drift and straggle - then they moved for at least 6 hours from midnight to sunrise - possibly from 9 or 10 pm. This is 3700 metres an hour giving 22 kilometres. Every ship trailed around for 22 kilometres or so across the sea between Phaleron Bay and the mouth of the straits. Interesting, when you look at the map and notice the distance from Phaleron to Cynosaura is about 9km. A file of 200 triereis would be about 16 kilometres long! Put them in four files - the most we know of from ancient sources, and there is still a four kilometre Conga out there. The four squadrons of the Persian fleet would have to be very careful to stay out of each other's hair during the hours of darkness while they cris-crossed this patch of sea. </p><p><br /></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEheRV00H0TC8b4QhQ8t7t2wjfHT9Xei-QfXMqjiyo-28RCSEhnlLVaTi55mQPD3h-Pj0UXnoZVo4iH_7K7KSgKYj-nrkmwcM4vXopcWGfUA7ItQVuDfqHYZo3anNRMwZu7W_5VdCe5hEvYz/s329/darknight.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="284" data-original-width="329" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEheRV00H0TC8b4QhQ8t7t2wjfHT9Xei-QfXMqjiyo-28RCSEhnlLVaTi55mQPD3h-Pj0UXnoZVo4iH_7K7KSgKYj-nrkmwcM4vXopcWGfUA7ItQVuDfqHYZo3anNRMwZu7W_5VdCe5hEvYz/s320/darknight.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Hmmm.. there are 599 other ships out here somewhere.</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>If it is assumed they were just slowly working their way into the straits to be ready at dawn this also presents problems because even at 2 knots they could get way into the Bay of Eleusis before dawn. Maybe why Strauss and Mystrionis are so generous with their battle area ?.(not).</p><p>In fact, reaching so far means they have to negotiate the gap between the Pharmakousia islands which was only about 500 metres wide. In the dark. Probably not a serious option. (see Wallinga map above).</p><p>This means one of the greatest puzzles for Salamis reconstructions is 'Nocturnal Command and Control Systems Amongst Heterogeneous War-Galley Fleets of Ancient Eastern Imperial Powers'. Lanterns are possible but the Greeks will see them. Noise is to be avoided - possibly. Large formations staying in contact at night; not an easy problem to solve.</p><p><br /></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2kUXndTL2r2_SXa-gctQ8TSHzME0R6QMc5j8JfJfR2AAZj-OkDd54eqNq5B0A127H4R_rJlsIMEvD3JrR4M7e1sXO-djeKUkaR2Ls-nKBKklrkfBf8Tn4YCiR-koSqglkd_L53b5ZcBai/s1051/flagship.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="998" data-original-width="1051" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2kUXndTL2r2_SXa-gctQ8TSHzME0R6QMc5j8JfJfR2AAZj-OkDd54eqNq5B0A127H4R_rJlsIMEvD3JrR4M7e1sXO-djeKUkaR2Ls-nKBKklrkfBf8Tn4YCiR-koSqglkd_L53b5ZcBai/s320/flagship.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">!Follow that ship!</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>Dawn starts at 6.30 and sunrise is 7am.</p><p>It is easy, therefore, to see the yawning holes in the ancient source material and the modern reconstructions which depend upon them. If anyone tells you they have a 'solution' for the dispositions at Salamis then pause before you buy a used trieres from them. </p><p>More soon.</p><p></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhLPPAA59L3AL8saR7e-YQOam6NANJRkWJVydiCpKCwgwjHGcdQe7f4pynd3uT0Yx-J7OG3cM-B3Q6virBGYVQNt8C24cj9UoIGQrROjdcL4L4_Co_bpRWN8vfPar2NIQgSUcOAjzewo0bc/s446/endface.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="446" data-original-width="414" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhLPPAA59L3AL8saR7e-YQOam6NANJRkWJVydiCpKCwgwjHGcdQe7f4pynd3uT0Yx-J7OG3cM-B3Q6virBGYVQNt8C24cj9UoIGQrROjdcL4L4_Co_bpRWN8vfPar2NIQgSUcOAjzewo0bc/s320/endface.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Contain yourself!</td></tr></tbody></table><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-4238205085127171472021-06-09T17:50:00.003+02:002021-06-09T17:50:40.486+02:00POOPCAST 6 on YT<p> Latest Poopcast now up on YT.</p><p>Part 2 of an examination of the <i>periplous. </i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEggKwtVTzfFX2QnBMWmV_JXp4ibx-L2cK07k5UA0jw_n52iD-3lZ98Jq6g_9OQKj1zUiUR1xGAdwHHg0mLyALCiohWGxEE3yNxXOCQxHMjYJR1gue70P1H56p01Yo5u5jX3mcw4Qu-DLmZc/s390/ypoopcast6note.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="105" data-original-width="390" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEggKwtVTzfFX2QnBMWmV_JXp4ibx-L2cK07k5UA0jw_n52iD-3lZ98Jq6g_9OQKj1zUiUR1xGAdwHHg0mLyALCiohWGxEE3yNxXOCQxHMjYJR1gue70P1H56p01Yo5u5jX3mcw4Qu-DLmZc/s320/ypoopcast6note.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div>Channel link at top left.<p></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-2429517182520070112021-06-08T16:28:00.005+02:002021-06-12T00:04:06.158+02:00ALKEDO<p> A recommendation for a war-galley blog. ALKEDO is an Italian (Valerio , I believe) and models 1/2400 war-galleys and wargames with them.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGDn_bJFbYqykUFqhL6TH9yZcYV8U8ZCRoiiH4rHNWMzWAK89_sxmKWEGIzT40cTh7u8sJ6q2QR9lCBL5t-2fLx9G_gxp0tnFd6A5_3Yfx4HpFwj2Gsk03CMndioqeoklUhUHmUontB2y0/s471/alcedo4.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="324" data-original-width="471" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGDn_bJFbYqykUFqhL6TH9yZcYV8U8ZCRoiiH4rHNWMzWAK89_sxmKWEGIzT40cTh7u8sJ6q2QR9lCBL5t-2fLx9G_gxp0tnFd6A5_3Yfx4HpFwj2Gsk03CMndioqeoklUhUHmUontB2y0/s320/alcedo4.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div>Valerio blogs about his games, modelling his own figures and ships and buildings.<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjTABcCB3RKhWrW62nsW6Ir4FeOqeHFA2dTqSNxIbpcluY1SJywrSV6lY6AWvZ2FXiehCxYIIAk-uqijZmyP4h36PDibvGjx7KAoj-hydm8zgdyH4Zx7nq23WQkdCJkuOvpTIq1-YQgMiHd/s706/alcedo2.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="551" data-original-width="706" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjTABcCB3RKhWrW62nsW6Ir4FeOqeHFA2dTqSNxIbpcluY1SJywrSV6lY6AWvZ2FXiehCxYIIAk-uqijZmyP4h36PDibvGjx7KAoj-hydm8zgdyH4Zx7nq23WQkdCJkuOvpTIq1-YQgMiHd/s320/alcedo2.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><p>Anndd... being so lucky as to live near Ostia in Italy he has some nice photos of original monuments for you to be jealous over.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0Dexkz7Dt9TmVCt7PGZOlE1v3EQc-QuMLGSIkMZPIlpmpN8pdSl44oB-fW4e6ThalNigKnTaLV7E1x7j-ZvNHHcQXrwkYulyoL2HIVGsnSZmS-Z2s6L3Qtz4eWSIrknKLfsaQ2b8IeI4W/s564/alcedo3.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="332" data-original-width="564" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg0Dexkz7Dt9TmVCt7PGZOlE1v3EQc-QuMLGSIkMZPIlpmpN8pdSl44oB-fW4e6ThalNigKnTaLV7E1x7j-ZvNHHcQXrwkYulyoL2HIVGsnSZmS-Z2s6L3Qtz4eWSIrknKLfsaQ2b8IeI4W/s320/alcedo3.jpg" width="320" /></a></div></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="text-align: left;">.</span></div>Take a bird's eye view of war-galley gaming <a href="https://alkedominis.wixsite.com/blog/my-blog" target="_blank">HERE</a><p></p><div><br /></div><div>See the original 'Alkedo' in my Poopcast 2 about 'little ships'on YT -link top left.</div>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-56022565253849213282021-06-04T00:18:00.002+02:002021-06-05T02:23:01.403+02:00Phantom Lemb Syndrome<div><b>Liburnians and Illyrian Lembs Iron Age Ships of the Eastern Adriatic.</b></div><div><b>Boršić, Luka & Dzino, Danijel & Rossi, Irena. (2021).</b></div><div><b>Archaeopress, Oxford</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Most people who lose a limb suffer residual pain and feel like the appendage is still there some of the time. We all have the feeling now and then that we still own some possession we lost or gave away long since.</div><div><br /></div><div>This is a book which one hopes will consolidate the vague ideas and references that lurk in the back of one's mind concerning the elusive lemb. That war-galley one has heard of but lost a clear picture of what it was, Like a jabberwock or the Schleswig-Holstein Question. Brilliant, this tome should plug the gap! But the phantom feeling remains even after reading it. </div><div><br /></div><div>Many books make reference to the<i> lembus / lembos </i>which was a small galley used to support larger types or as a raiding or pirate vessel. But, as with the liburnian(sic) which this book also covers, one is left with that feeling there is not much really there.</div><div><br /></div><div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQuKhh_4kplgZbbLd9wkqd5Cq0YD1TDrdp2Exo3G1lRuNIn5jOyw7HlEpT70L81Qys1sTyNs3kGeEM-fHJbtlIW4fFutj53AxbFHH3TB2gGieoBNqZPQqdTMllpRixpQu6mCzFUpCR_idN/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="269" data-original-width="266" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQuKhh_4kplgZbbLd9wkqd5Cq0YD1TDrdp2Exo3G1lRuNIn5jOyw7HlEpT70L81Qys1sTyNs3kGeEM-fHJbtlIW4fFutj53AxbFHH3TB2gGieoBNqZPQqdTMllpRixpQu6mCzFUpCR_idN/" width="237" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Lembus? on an Illyrian coin 200BC</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Liburnians and Illyrian Lembs </b>tries to flesh -out the small-galley experience and consolidate what we know about these ships. This book is a specialised offering devoted to the <i>lembus</i> and the<i> liburnian. </i>The lembus is a diminutive type of war-galley that crops up in the 3rd century BC and has a career down to Later Roman times. The liburnian was adopted by the Romans in some form as their standard light war-galley in Imperial times.</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>200-odd pages gets you about 80 pages of collated archaeology and discussion and an exhaustive catalogue of literary extracts featuring said ships. There are 4 maps and 30 figures, some in colour. </div><div><br /></div><div>TERMINOLOGY</div><div>The difficulties of writing about ancient vessels with no modern noun to hand always gives problems when writing about war-galleys.</div><div><br /></div><div>The approach adopted here is to suggest we call the<i> lembus</i> (Latin) or <i>lembos</i>(Greek) a 'lemb'.</div><div>They think the latin and Greek plurals are clumsy. The problem here is that lemb has no related name or connotation in English. Best to stick with Latin and Greek because these ships only exist in the world of ancient war-galleys, I think.</div><div><br /></div><div>Similarly with the liburnian. They opt for<i> liburnica. </i>OR liburnian. Or<i> liburna</i>. </div><div><br /></div><div>This smacks of making montaines of molehills. There is a pre-existing format -<i>lembus-lembi</i> and <i>lembos-lemboi.</i> And liburnian. Kein problem. </div><div><br /></div><div>(Neither am I encouraged to support 'lemb' because it sounds like the Danish euphemism for a male member!)</div><div><br /></div><div>PLUS POINTS</div><div><br /></div><div>The inclusion of recent finds in marine archaeology is a big plus. Especially from countries we don't hear so much from in the anglophone world viz. war-galleys. There have been some finds of sewn boats that add up to North Adriatic boat 'tradition' from the late centuries BC. </div><div><br /></div><div>The catalogue of 'testamenta' or extracts concerning said vessels is the main reason to buy the book. Lots of obscure - though often slight - references to these ships are interesting and revealing to browse through. </div><div><br /></div><div>THE MEAT AND POTATOES</div><div><br /></div><div>Neither liburnians nor<i> lembi</i> were sewn ships. The liburnian and the lembus are not the same ship type. The liburnian was probably larger than the <i>lembus</i>. The original lembus was probably enlarged for use in war. Message ends. Of course there many more details but as for addressing the identity of these ships this is, for me at least, disappointingly minimalist.</div><div><br /></div><div>NON-PLUSSED POINTS</div><div><br /></div><div>The authors never try to recreate an image of the ships. No line-drawings. No artists impressions.( One brief refernce - a paragraph, a photo and a line-drawing draws an analogy with a Burmese dug-out canoe but this goes nowhere.).This can be sensible to avoid the slings and arrows of outraged armchair experts disappointed that their pet fancies are not included but not to even attempt to reconstruct the ships the book is about, not one ship type but two ship types! Looks like carelessness. </div><div><br /></div><div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEih_FvZIYuUGgk7SnU4qk3cIghp9w2ozY1wAELhhqJ8X3yIfkCKXo8dVnh5_T1uZARWnB8Pv-zgL46JgUnwz-jU3qrf1gZ7zDCdIOny2T49b6mhYWDUbmJeTbQx2uWI3vFQrojljd_Rmd_C/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="960" data-original-width="1920" height="160" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEih_FvZIYuUGgk7SnU4qk3cIghp9w2ozY1wAELhhqJ8X3yIfkCKXo8dVnh5_T1uZARWnB8Pv-zgL46JgUnwz-jU3qrf1gZ7zDCdIOny2T49b6mhYWDUbmJeTbQx2uWI3vFQrojljd_Rmd_C/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Coin of the Illyrian Daorsi tribe. 200BC</td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><br /></div><div>The archaeological remains of sewn hulls are from vessels of 8 metres or so. These cannot be the vessles that transport 50 troops at a time or contest the seas with triereis and pentereis.... So we are left with our imaginations dangling.</div><div><br /></div><div>Something which is not dangling is a stone relief recently found in Croatia which is from 'Liburnia' where the liburnians come from. The authors do not attempt reconstruction of the ship illustrated. BUT, and I kid you not....they actually state..'no ram or other extension is shown on the bow which is shown with an unusually(sic) looking circular shape,' (Who is going to tell them..never seen a pine-cone on Roman sculpture?)</div><div><br /></div><div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdoFnXNuAuZGb6JK8BzutTvHTi6Adjt1Am-DpMjmj-zKenvdI5l4PdrjffebNjNN3DmyUt8mA0jT88h7yAvMiz6TVFjiLk1NKlAc23DVL_DCyp1iz8ylhg_DPAb9qcAkMW6YNk1Z92KUus/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="445" data-original-width="800" height="178" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdoFnXNuAuZGb6JK8BzutTvHTi6Adjt1Am-DpMjmj-zKenvdI5l4PdrjffebNjNN3DmyUt8mA0jT88h7yAvMiz6TVFjiLk1NKlAc23DVL_DCyp1iz8ylhg_DPAb9qcAkMW6YNk1Z92KUus/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">roundish thing approaches .. what could it be?</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><br /></div><div>The Novilara ships are included with some caveats but the doubts on the stela's authenticity need to be addressed more deeply or the stela should be ruled out.</div><div><br /></div><div>The authors also make a valiant attempt to decry any hint that the inhabitants of the eastern Adriatic coast were piratical by nature.They were, apparently, forced into it by their elites: who were forced into it by the need to participate in a modern world of expensive internationally-traded luxury goods: because they had to maintain their elite status. Any resulting piracy was part of the same system of exchange as trading, the only difference being the negative perception. Let that sink in. Rape, burning, looting, murder, theft, ransoming, slavery and protection rackets add up to simple trading. Just the pirates were forced into it by socio-economic pressures. Now where have I heard that before recently?</div><div><br /></div><div>Language : this book is a multi-lingual collaboration so it must have been a chore to keep the translation issues under control. I am not one to carp, dealing with a second language in my everyday world I know the problems but there are quite a few errors, none hinder reading or understanding. (but what is a swamping ship?)</div><div><br /></div><div>The BIG bonus with this book is the compilation of extracts that deal with ancient war-galleys and use of light galleys. Being able to look at all these in one volume is justification for the book alone. But it would be a good one to get from the library to peruse.</div><div><br /></div><div>Last but not least, (Archaeopress!) this cost me an arm and a leg. And I still get twinges from their loss.</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>My earlier entry on the liburnian <a href="https://ramsravensandwrecks.blogspot.com/2016/12/li-burning-question.html" target="_blank">HERE.</a></div>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-14356830526420359302021-05-25T11:11:00.005+02:002021-05-25T16:35:05.761+02:00MONEY MAKES THE OARS GO-AROUND...<p>The Mariner's Museum at Newport News, Virginia continues to put out YT videos.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhAoM_NnspeavVMrv945G0AXhjuA5_fP9zLaw9u84nlS_mNkIJNogcsOnZdL6gM7hFu3vnXf9mSEP7GMcOxzbcl3dCyvgsM46avWiqnHCzaD5f6GEsusgH1Ocj3frXw0H-gZGmoJHqIvYvZ/" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="" data-original-height="410" data-original-width="737" height="178" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhAoM_NnspeavVMrv945G0AXhjuA5_fP9zLaw9u84nlS_mNkIJNogcsOnZdL6gM7hFu3vnXf9mSEP7GMcOxzbcl3dCyvgsM46avWiqnHCzaD5f6GEsusgH1Ocj3frXw0H-gZGmoJHqIvYvZ/" width="320" /></a></div><p></p><p>A recent one deals with ancient coinage by using examples from the museum's collection. Some of the coins in the collection are exceptionally fine.</p><p>Many of the coins include details of ancient galleys .</p><p>The ancient war-galley required a large and well-motivated crew and finding the money to pay them was always a problem. One could argue the Peloponnesian War was settled by the Spartans being able to offer a higher rate of pay to oarsmen. </p><p>When offered personal riches by Cyrus the Younger, Lysander famously replied he would rather receive enough coin to pay his rowers an extra obol on their wage. He was given the money and proceeded to 'empty the ships of his enemies' by this simple means.</p><p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhMaOLuRSHce0mz2oG6MF_XR1PMErMGFiWSG20ZtJrYCyw1leWycrVU47dsNp1HrxpbbUbS6USN74k-FPDMtjDywBmt4YiFIJMRsS128cXjD3EOQHKfhd9-QyfETWuuxBb5yBtwn-1tOZDF/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="217" data-original-width="220" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhMaOLuRSHce0mz2oG6MF_XR1PMErMGFiWSG20ZtJrYCyw1leWycrVU47dsNp1HrxpbbUbS6USN74k-FPDMtjDywBmt4YiFIJMRsS128cXjD3EOQHKfhd9-QyfETWuuxBb5yBtwn-1tOZDF/" width="243" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Persian 'Daric' - key to the Peloponnesian War stalemate</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjYlXRvEqzQllwXnRhVSMWBjiJXfblIdxTIRU4n3Q7Qqo7xD2wyFYWPNvvPfx2AsdXNmdgHovYlCitlVlZ-6EeHxaepEDKTD6TxwashafxHJsHMJ4YYVWpASm6VGMaCUpjxkUZEetRzJzOO/" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="" data-original-height="223" data-original-width="474" height="151" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjYlXRvEqzQllwXnRhVSMWBjiJXfblIdxTIRU4n3Q7Qqo7xD2wyFYWPNvvPfx2AsdXNmdgHovYlCitlVlZ-6EeHxaepEDKTD6TxwashafxHJsHMJ4YYVWpASm6VGMaCUpjxkUZEetRzJzOO/" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">A Mysian silver obol of c.400BC - 4 of these was the monthly pay of a war-galley oarsman</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><br /></p><p>This video is well worth a view to get a quick overview of the minting, use and iconography of ancient coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>Watch the vid <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XArFz-4A6Y" target="_blank">HERE</a>.</p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-9711692411772694262021-04-27T16:11:00.004+02:002021-04-27T16:11:54.485+02:00POOPCAST 5 : THE PERIPLOUS PART 1<p> I successfully(?) fought the nine-headed beast of video-editing again and Poopcast 5 was created.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEima8oD8UX7qdoNpMiKxDNl1ulRNaW93JxZ1EITlxE1PSU2qYHiUdjX-uBcjlUiKxS34dum0SIbrCdfJjh2pgHQEUAZCTOfTDE6bjgZ-WxvmixVgimpZES2zkoBBsVAIEEmIMZ9qHWQWDZV/s2048/20210422_142904_resized.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1536" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEima8oD8UX7qdoNpMiKxDNl1ulRNaW93JxZ1EITlxE1PSU2qYHiUdjX-uBcjlUiKxS34dum0SIbrCdfJjh2pgHQEUAZCTOfTDE6bjgZ-WxvmixVgimpZES2zkoBBsVAIEEmIMZ9qHWQWDZV/s320/20210422_142904_resized.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Suddenly, it was not a good day to be a Leucadian.</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>A first part discussing what the <i>periplous</i> was and setting up Part the Second which tries to get a firm hold of this slippery eel.</p><p>LINK TO YOUTUBE HERE : <a class="style-scope ytcp-video-share-dialog" href="https://youtu.be/FskqsPcrTHs" id="watch-url" style="-webkit-font-smoothing: var(--ytcp-font-subheading_-_-webkit-font-smoothing); background-color: #f9f9f9; font-family: Roboto, Noto, sans-serif; font-size: var(--ytcp-font-subheading_-_font-size); line-height: var(--ytcp-font-subheading_-_line-height); text-decoration-line: none;" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/FskqsPcrTHs</a></p><p>Premiere is on 30/4/2021 17.00 Euro Time</p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-53907193078339647642021-04-16T14:49:00.003+02:002021-04-16T15:12:24.997+02:00THEMISTOCLEAN TRIEREIS<p> My latest models have been sent down the slipways.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjhpamilvSP90-Wnqx229rdY9Aex2brBLW4BnrN3ON2q1HBwzbgu5EV8wjnCJZ0wEgqMVjyki9Z4RrVtUNtDFGg3y-YHEfzOyJJU6CoZ0DAJmjE3cDfQ3M3dJkBkkYHUmHJMtEDmr02hR2q/s2048/20210416_124502_resized.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1032" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjhpamilvSP90-Wnqx229rdY9Aex2brBLW4BnrN3ON2q1HBwzbgu5EV8wjnCJZ0wEgqMVjyki9Z4RrVtUNtDFGg3y-YHEfzOyJJU6CoZ0DAJmjE3cDfQ3M3dJkBkkYHUmHJMtEDmr02hR2q/s320/20210416_124502_resized.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">1/1000 scale </td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>They are triereis of the Salamis period. The type which would have been constructed under Themistocles' scheme to use the Laurion silver strike for a war-galley fleet instead of frittering it away on a cash share-out.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzlep_WKC0WPYRpyQS0UGPuhlmBDSxlpLhDaGBDvxZh7a79yuv664M1XRgtJrLi-IywQhCTQhNCK271iuG2dr1IvKuUasgMW6bjyr4O6l5aOdnJbNe2zDEfsb67Yz6-_sj7_B8Sbys56cF/s2048/20210416_124546_resized.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1494" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzlep_WKC0WPYRpyQS0UGPuhlmBDSxlpLhDaGBDvxZh7a79yuv664M1XRgtJrLi-IywQhCTQhNCK271iuG2dr1IvKuUasgMW6bjyr4O6l5aOdnJbNe2zDEfsb67Yz6-_sj7_B8Sbys56cF/s320/20210416_124546_resized.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="text-align: left;"><br /></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><p>These triereis are not closed-in. The deck joins the forecastle and the poop but does not cover the oarsmen.</p><p>Such ships had canvas sun-shades which could be rigged to protect the working oarsmen and hide screens which could be erected to protect them from missiles in battle.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhf9Cr11mV_CbpYEouMFHc0OdSRg3wIKOcU_KnSlF17FdGDfsPtAzYtWEyC0E6aeaF0edbW0BLxqaOe8825-bGEYGJvPckR_DKoH6VhyAZmsRhClE54KU_2ZzcfOgGJ7mqTNDdmKwg8ESYp/s1647/20210416_124706_resized.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1647" data-original-width="1319" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhf9Cr11mV_CbpYEouMFHc0OdSRg3wIKOcU_KnSlF17FdGDfsPtAzYtWEyC0E6aeaF0edbW0BLxqaOe8825-bGEYGJvPckR_DKoH6VhyAZmsRhClE54KU_2ZzcfOgGJ7mqTNDdmKwg8ESYp/s320/20210416_124706_resized.jpg" /></a></div><br /><p>Fully decked triereis had more space for deck fighters and the oarsmen could be fully protected by erecting hide side-screens down the length of the ship.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg-V1x6jEzXDv0Zp7ZdirX9PCJUYfBmMs4KWtCRUlF0QrtPDMKnterhXWgNJXKTMIP6R98wLeB3AZX2NQK26beZGoe9t8pJ-wW7OYRoqDn0pT30zE19CBPOhVm1Vd1TYsyZ22RzhZh5Aqo5/s2048/20210416_124733_resized.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1349" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg-V1x6jEzXDv0Zp7ZdirX9PCJUYfBmMs4KWtCRUlF0QrtPDMKnterhXWgNJXKTMIP6R98wLeB3AZX2NQK26beZGoe9t8pJ-wW7OYRoqDn0pT30zE19CBPOhVm1Vd1TYsyZ22RzhZh5Aqo5/s320/20210416_124733_resized.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Side-screens below a light deck(left) or along the gunwale(right)</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>After Salamis - maybe because of experience in close fighting with the Persian fleet that was heavily manned with 30 or 40 deck fighters per ship as opposed to the dozen or so on Athenian ships - the Athenian fleet was retro-fitted with full decks. These ships were employed by Kimon to hammer the Persian fleet in Ionia and smash them at the sea-land battle at the mouth of the River Eurymedon c. 469BC.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhql1ML9YB6TMaEX06MpiVgl-W-_v87wUxz8dAG-RXyW3Wy2DL_gqXvPyOR007XV3faheq02AEcW-cXiBISPJNWfE_ssbVFs7rBYZIhyphenhyphenz0qpYPu7STGcnRwjE77p4R6HpOcrabMSFxTAL8G/s496/eurymedon.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="325" data-original-width="496" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhql1ML9YB6TMaEX06MpiVgl-W-_v87wUxz8dAG-RXyW3Wy2DL_gqXvPyOR007XV3faheq02AEcW-cXiBISPJNWfE_ssbVFs7rBYZIhyphenhyphenz0qpYPu7STGcnRwjE77p4R6HpOcrabMSFxTAL8G/s320/eurymedon.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">'Excuse me, is this the Battle of The Eurymedon?'<br /> 'Actually we are in a generic Edwardian print but if it helps your focus let's call it that name you said'</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>As usual in a simple democracy the populace tired of Kimon and he was banished to exile. Though he did return later and fought again at sea. Amazingly, an ostrakon with his name (Kimon son of Miltiades - yes THE Miltiades) has been found at Athens, a real link with historical events. (can we have a decked trireres next please? Ed.)</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhpAUcETg811z_YGw4kW3L-FKSvvc5Iy-05AqCqC75m-GfQCGZe-m_yrFiZv-W7k2vCMDhgyGKFYbfchr2nwpO6J64Z0XDXmSMFS9fybAuTMMPqk1C4jTHY4aHbC4lq5tELKvsX4TWOfSJv/s801/kimonostrak.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="296" data-original-width="801" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhpAUcETg811z_YGw4kW3L-FKSvvc5Iy-05AqCqC75m-GfQCGZe-m_yrFiZv-W7k2vCMDhgyGKFYbfchr2nwpO6J64Z0XDXmSMFS9fybAuTMMPqk1C4jTHY4aHbC4lq5tELKvsX4TWOfSJv/s320/kimonostrak.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>A fully-decked trieres was slower than an undecked one but the advantages must have been clear. As far as we know all subsequent triereis had a continuous deck. </p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgr5frtVader9FTLcAYWw5lsvoucp8u_fWoS9G8kx9Pwb8DGGOWhrWV2DlL9sOhVSnwGCKCm67eQp-tmfhBMHLDqqwC0wobiDkw0ldEYGtwbrqbvmvOCZ3LboOmnBE6HdrQSL6uh3XUNsi2/s1981/20210416_124755_resized.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1981" data-original-width="1637" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgr5frtVader9FTLcAYWw5lsvoucp8u_fWoS9G8kx9Pwb8DGGOWhrWV2DlL9sOhVSnwGCKCm67eQp-tmfhBMHLDqqwC0wobiDkw0ldEYGtwbrqbvmvOCZ3LboOmnBE6HdrQSL6uh3XUNsi2/s320/20210416_124755_resized.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">See the red-head in rowing position 'port thranite number 7' ?)</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>However, a solid deck for fighting on is not the same as a light deck which protects against the sun and weather. It was the tetreres which introduced this as a major structural feature. But we actually have no evidence for the exact nature of a fully decked trieres in the Classical or Hellenistic periods.</p><p><br /></p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidEpARpqKnbrWh9YKbbgOIOq6nj8kxUv1sSLstFypmvbkIpAe45JQ9tkU64nK3kiNddiy1jWPCtg4H3YKpWuzJlP2fcTjCVSYCYPkQ_QiQoorIUOqqMbEKENlwDD7tH9hf5UsQo3fRrvCK/s2045/facebeach.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2045" data-original-width="1523" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidEpARpqKnbrWh9YKbbgOIOq6nj8kxUv1sSLstFypmvbkIpAe45JQ9tkU64nK3kiNddiy1jWPCtg4H3YKpWuzJlP2fcTjCVSYCYPkQ_QiQoorIUOqqMbEKENlwDD7tH9hf5UsQo3fRrvCK/s320/facebeach.png" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Hordes of tiny heads, each one individually sculpted with the portrait of an ancient Athenian</td></tr></tbody></table><br /><div><div style="text-align: center;"><br /><br /></div>But a decked ship is NOT the same as a cataphract ship. Cataphracts have a permanently-mounted system of wooden screening to protect the interior and the oarsmen. Kimon's triereis were not cataphracts, neither were the Persian-Phoenician vessels. This came later...</div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiREZVj4O9OVhNNP5qRm3oVOML3Kl3N3w_6Rp9YpGOd8hn8_ZvoRz3B_Pg9HwYTp9rs4YPdiBSkfqW7QYrj9BvDiWDEPtrRS_uT9RbGA_8WsgppqRM64v6svnLCbNGbJ0i9a-QQOtJWNwvH/s2048/20210416_124510_resized.jpg" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1076" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiREZVj4O9OVhNNP5qRm3oVOML3Kl3N3w_6Rp9YpGOd8hn8_ZvoRz3B_Pg9HwYTp9rs4YPdiBSkfqW7QYrj9BvDiWDEPtrRS_uT9RbGA_8WsgppqRM64v6svnLCbNGbJ0i9a-QQOtJWNwvH/s320/20210416_124510_resized.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">'We're riding along on the crest of a polyester velveteen-nervøs velour wave and the sun ..etc.' </td></tr></tbody></table><p></p><p><br /></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-80984487943415851732021-04-16T13:48:00.001+02:002021-04-16T13:48:28.014+02:00Blogger declines<p> The blogger email notification widget is being discontinued.</p><p>You will no longer get an email about new posts if you signed-up for them.</p><p>There are ways around this but I cannot be bothered to rejig a service which should get easier with time not more complex and more difficult to use.</p><p>Maybe someone thinks blogs are passe and will be gradually phased out. Who knows?</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEga7A1mT0x6Jvzbrv6Fb82zOwKMMSRv4xX-k4HO1XCkrpwZKEedZlBIb5NyR_mBlan0Jwki1gurMgOh2jvC2R5SxvHb0mfRVzx7LB8OfWRDZVQV-we8Vwfzsk49NUqJtsTfYxXwdconrVWe/" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="" data-original-height="500" data-original-width="500" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEga7A1mT0x6Jvzbrv6Fb82zOwKMMSRv4xX-k4HO1XCkrpwZKEedZlBIb5NyR_mBlan0Jwki1gurMgOh2jvC2R5SxvHb0mfRVzx7LB8OfWRDZVQV-we8Vwfzsk49NUqJtsTfYxXwdconrVWe/" width="240" /></a></div><br /><p></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-5612575895162407272021-04-09T17:00:00.001+02:002021-04-09T17:00:00.179+02:00Another look at the Yenikapi ships<p> Another vid which gives a look at the Yenikapi ships.</p><p>This time from INA -Institute for Nautical Archaeology.</p><p><br /></p><p>There is some coverage of the war-galley/ dromon wreck.YK4.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiqRfawIoWI" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="607" data-original-width="891" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhxdqa5SaloMbuowlm_0sbR4MGOVL_r2Ra4PPh3IMQdohisDdGqdRZ9s3XiLs2Z6E402bNpE6C0Jrxk1oUdPypLAv5qoFcGaC0tkUCqGaHhk7LF2CpMln9kcqJ7FTLw27u9O0kHGt_WTdNs/s320/yk4.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Click picture for link.</td></tr></tbody></table>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-33836548778701136842021-04-05T17:00:00.008+02:002021-04-05T17:00:01.316+02:00The Yenikapi ShipsMany wrecks have been found in Constaninople harbour deposits.<div>Information dribbles out...frustratingly slowly and primarily in Turkish of course.</div><div><br /></div><div>This excellent Odyssey programme gives an overview.</div><div><br /></div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><span style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><a href="https://youtu.be/F9JmOMqETn4" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="543" data-original-width="1158" height="225" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSpehfwNNotpaYOcddvPN5V5iViC42jnHbtlqZSu08ZBkIa8ZmMaRTGI_2-sjz9hLUGaF4jloV1ErJ2kPzU5OIcW3nJp7fLktDWDhk_U-aX0vzVBQP-hTvsuSfXEX-MhNQq05Ceu_ruzO7/w478-h225/constantinoplewrecks1.jpg" width="478" /></a></span></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://youtu.be/F9JmOMqETn4" target="_blank">Click foto for YouTube link</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br /><div>A bit later than my main period of interest but 36 ships canot be sneezed at.</div><div><br /></div><div>Wish they had focussed more on the warships of course.</div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwK9alEy_4mjY2EKYtfsvB9SNk-VgmFv9ccSYR-12oywO9boB19s9XyA29s8-vsckowFd-iItXSM5Dd9vv8XAWAb7ovE_ZF3ydKPbAp0FSnFjD6jeAxS3OU2OIFrB2uPrC0AsXDs_MFM8y/s1171/yenikapiYK12.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="682" data-original-width="1171" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwK9alEy_4mjY2EKYtfsvB9SNk-VgmFv9ccSYR-12oywO9boB19s9XyA29s8-vsckowFd-iItXSM5Dd9vv8XAWAb7ovE_ZF3ydKPbAp0FSnFjD6jeAxS3OU2OIFrB2uPrC0AsXDs_MFM8y/s320/yenikapiYK12.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div><br /></div>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-9272109991383489772021-03-30T00:05:00.003+02:002021-03-30T01:11:49.420+02:00WAR-GALLEYS OF CLASSICAL ANTIQUITY - A YOUTUBE CHANNEL<p> I have finally ventured into YouTubeian waters.</p><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><span style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZhwxBoU_l7ZJM1RsnVO8kQ" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="583" data-original-width="1131" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj4suamxSK_cxudpt2-hKsngJJMGOC4aGRLomCcuLMNbwwAwke3NBO3dV55ALv6TR-TK9_xVAXa6o4xExBvQ2Q0OSTFpO7B2-zxkC9YO9HzAoqreLu2nBO73-PKnTk52TjwDy4AXfFyOjwp/s320/INSETSNAP1.jpg" width="320" /></a></span></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZhwxBoU_l7ZJM1RsnVO8kQ" target="_blank">Click to vist - else use LINKS LIST at left</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br /><p>Dare you follow ? -like Livy said, it is easy to lose one's footing and get submerged!</p><p><br /></p><p>LINK in LINKS LIST to left <span style="font-size: x-large;"> <b><----</b></span></p><p><br /></p><p>Only four vids so far, but they are the first four I ever made so they are there warts and all.</p><p><br /></p><p>The channel is WAR-GALLEYS OF CLASSICAL ANTIQUITY rather than Rams Ravens and Wrecks because the blog name produces very wierd things on searches due to American football, ornithologists and sheep botherers....</p><p><br /></p><p>ALSO NOTE : I put the internal blog search function ON RIGHT <b><span style="font-size: large;"> ---></span></b></p><p>Easier to find stuff now..at last...I hope.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-70422041091816536302021-03-15T00:25:00.002+01:002021-03-15T00:25:22.738+01:00Triakonteres get an outing<p> I finally painted some of my 1/1000 triakonteres so they could star in a project.</p><p>Some better photos to follow.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiqzT10GJgtG6fJ1b4wjPIAmsQCekBaZJbHHNGfpyiqws3OG9xrUfw0LNcq54rqPMIyaQkPzj8XqIxyOZcMNOF6rjO-cyV6RREb1eijiRYQsBJTTcndTtn75E11s5tN81Fcj5CCxBdO_YEI/s2048/triasx.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1536" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiqzT10GJgtG6fJ1b4wjPIAmsQCekBaZJbHHNGfpyiqws3OG9xrUfw0LNcq54rqPMIyaQkPzj8XqIxyOZcMNOF6rjO-cyV6RREb1eijiRYQsBJTTcndTtn75E11s5tN81Fcj5CCxBdO_YEI/s320/triasx.jpg" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJPywzSss833S1KwjqIpDpNSzZffCnuX6OIJkYBm3oFLh0zDBQ1KZa08UGEABreApnkUDobDzIoA7bk59RGzEYnf6YPL1RoQlbn6psrBW3DW9dA0-Ltbt33hKewV17ySUN__3-zo71jwr2/s2048/triasy.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1536" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJPywzSss833S1KwjqIpDpNSzZffCnuX6OIJkYBm3oFLh0zDBQ1KZa08UGEABreApnkUDobDzIoA7bk59RGzEYnf6YPL1RoQlbn6psrBW3DW9dA0-Ltbt33hKewV17ySUN__3-zo71jwr2/s320/triasy.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><p>Cruising up the Crissaean Gulf as support/supply vessels along with Corinthian <i>stratiotoi</i> carrying hoplites on deck...</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirPEnZC-xZWDZG8Wm8hs9xBhnqKBdxZw_UU1641LWQB-YRLDQduwj1OEtS_so-nY_v9pAd6LW5NRS8qMpbWVRTo4h3WP4AXkUCwcXjT7k-ujcRk9pAlB15rwYksOnilS73uXbc3g4r5dSN/s1200/trias3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="777" data-original-width="1200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirPEnZC-xZWDZG8Wm8hs9xBhnqKBdxZw_UU1641LWQB-YRLDQduwj1OEtS_so-nY_v9pAd6LW5NRS8qMpbWVRTo4h3WP4AXkUCwcXjT7k-ujcRk9pAlB15rwYksOnilS73uXbc3g4r5dSN/s320/trias3.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-84432005313106926922021-03-08T17:50:00.003+01:002021-03-08T17:52:37.035+01:00Mariner's Park and Museum : Galleys and Rams<p> I say nothing... watch and learn</p><p>'The Development of European Ironclads'</p><p><br /></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><iframe allowfullscreen="" class="BLOG_video_class" height="266" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/q17BiV2a7XQ" width="320" youtube-src-id="q17BiV2a7XQ"></iframe></div><p><br /></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-80858744103739694662021-03-03T10:53:00.000+01:002021-03-03T10:53:26.942+01:00MARINER'S MUSEUM AND PARK : NEWPORT NEWS, VIRGINIA : learning about Africa's maritime history<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjZc12mm3_7OS9gJrjrm-5QTrdzcXNZ11XkZA7YKbZqQpJFxMI-416O5ypXy5u0sOnRhM0LD77HbfACovmV3vGwXOr368j_TM5i2GDwadNuDLoChzHPgO_5zM9uLgbrTvgjTHZkltAOhVjL/s540/mmsort1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="338" data-original-width="540" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjZc12mm3_7OS9gJrjrm-5QTrdzcXNZ11XkZA7YKbZqQpJFxMI-416O5ypXy5u0sOnRhM0LD77HbfACovmV3vGwXOr368j_TM5i2GDwadNuDLoChzHPgO_5zM9uLgbrTvgjTHZkltAOhVjL/s320/mmsort1.png" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p><br /></p><p>Mariner's Museum and Park in Va. USA periodically emits youtube vids. I have followed their series on the US Civil War - Ironclads etc. Great stuff.</p><p>Then B&%¤# History Month occurred. </p><p>I have no wish to be overly critical to newbie YOUtubers. Or people unused to public speaking. Or people new to a subject. However. The 'interpretation' and education department of the museum has produced videos of a quality which is quite stunning. They stun me. Watching them left me stunned.</p><p>Is it just me? Am I too old and too fussy? Is my perspective warped by being immersed in the subject?</p><p>Are these vids aimed at school children? If they are....are they suitable?</p><p>I will say no more try to watch through these vids and make an evaluation..are these museum-quality productions? Do they prove Africa has an important maritime heritage? </p><p>Remember this is a 'maritime' museum. </p><p><br /></p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYPybPWJ3gI&list=PLxuDOGByWqPQkZDiWWnyiZiLhFXJfj413&index=1&t=3489s">Carthage</a></p><p><a href="https://youtu.be/Mesh7apGT9Y?list=PLxuDOGByWqPSwAc29kabnLlu64M2dBZEp" target="_blank">The Nile</a></p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FiOvjIEog8&list=PLxuDOGByWqPQkZDiWWnyiZiLhFXJfj413&index=2&t=2663s" target="_blank">The Swahili Coast</a></p><p><br /></p><p>I hope you got something out of the exercise.</p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-35314306500217526392021-02-13T12:54:00.000+01:002021-02-13T12:54:05.513+01:00DANUBE GALLEYS - THE SERBIAN SQUADRON<p> Find in a Serbian quarry by the Danube.</p><p><br /></p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhxe83VdtRIJMItWmGvy1wQTWUqnlKt3gIpSa7pKr_fIEl7cGHZWjPpEgArwLUurF-1QznBYqQdFBzvOmMmJ4C2dO79yFOGWQoCX8SYQ5WvPomHQlZJztgOTqR6hKHrA0gbHBhFq5HnrhYe/s1000/danubequarry1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="533" data-original-width="1000" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhxe83VdtRIJMItWmGvy1wQTWUqnlKt3gIpSa7pKr_fIEl7cGHZWjPpEgArwLUurF-1QznBYqQdFBzvOmMmJ4C2dO79yFOGWQoCX8SYQ5WvPomHQlZJztgOTqR6hKHrA0gbHBhFq5HnrhYe/s320/danubequarry1.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div>Read story here and see video at Curiosmos.com <a href="https://curiosmos.com/striking-discovery-3-ancient-roman-shipwrecks-found-buried-in-siberia/" target="_blank">HERE</a><br /><br /><p></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3247406492805228364.post-45209334114154722622021-01-28T19:40:00.003+01:002021-01-28T21:05:11.120+01:00UPDATE<p> Radio silence will broken soon. I have had problems with various things on top of China Virus chaos.</p><p> Also used some time for video project. </p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiq8vpherOnjRdD3J0e4I_5wnHGSbVuXDwjl8qSbLNPsZSqgVREqgprgDkVmo3J-9_CGF1EoMjLZRC9ZORueld9fBURL0M_OEbVvYZNjpBQ988g-HWZDWZCLLQt5Ppl5YXS50yMGc8f2TlW/s512/smallbanner1.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="174" data-original-width="512" height="159" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiq8vpherOnjRdD3J0e4I_5wnHGSbVuXDwjl8qSbLNPsZSqgVREqgprgDkVmo3J-9_CGF1EoMjLZRC9ZORueld9fBURL0M_OEbVvYZNjpBQ988g-HWZDWZCLLQt5Ppl5YXS50yMGc8f2TlW/w467-h159/smallbanner1.png" width="467" /></a></div></div><p></p><p>The world of war-galleys is too fascinating to stay away from for too long. KBO!</p><p><br /></p><p></p>Plasticvikinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949611855872874217noreply@blogger.com0